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Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

(849 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

tryandempathise Wed 27-Nov-19 07:54:20

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

Sadiesnakes Wed 27-Nov-19 08:14:42

biscuit

HorseWithNoFucksToGive Wed 27-Nov-19 08:16:04

I love the smell of (straw man) bollocks in the morning.

birdsdestiny Wed 27-Nov-19 08:16:13

Have the recent newsnight and radio 4 programmes worried people maybe?

BertrandRussell Wed 27-Nov-19 08:17:21

I don’t hate transpeople. And I don’t think I am going to be attacked by one.
I think there are issues with trans women being considered exactly the same as natal women in some very specific areas. I am happy to say more. @tryandempathise if you would like me to.

Branleuse Wed 27-Nov-19 08:17:24

i dont think mumnset does hate trans people, but there is robust debate on the feminism board about gender ideology and whether it overrides biological reality etc, transwomen in womens spaces/sports/all-women shortlists etc. I think youd expect this really as its clearly a pressing womens issue overwhelmingly

lemonsqueasy Wed 27-Nov-19 08:17:36

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HorseWithNoFucksToGive Wed 27-Nov-19 08:19:10

Yes Birds. Cages have been rattled.

NotTerfNorCis Wed 27-Nov-19 08:19:14

you don't believe that a person can be trans?

Personally I don't believe in male-bodied people with a 'female brain'.

There is plenty of evidence that transwomen retain male behavioural traits after transition.

Also, as someone else pointed out, 'self id' is guaranteed to be exploited by some predatory males who don't really believe they are women.

MrsKCastle Wed 27-Nov-19 08:20:17

Of course people can be trans. According to Stonewall, many of us here on FWR are trans.

What we don't tend to believe is that a person in a male body is 'actually' 'really' female. Because that involves ignoring biological sex and believing in ladybrain.

MIdgebabe Wed 27-Nov-19 08:20:34

I think op may be saying that a true trans person would lose / never have had male traits and only false claiming to be trans persons would keep male traits like propensity to violence

This then begs the question ...is a man a man if he lives his whole life without committing any male trait actions or was he also trans without realising it

Also then mean a true trans person will never detransistion

I think that is an hateful position to take. I know transwomen who are aware they keep Male traits, have benefitted from their maleness in their lives yet I would never consider them to be falsely trans. At least one has had severe mental health problems trying to cope with and understand the nature of their being. I actually take. Their honesty about their Male aspects as evidence of how well they have socialised into womanhood. They know it's relevent to women. They understand that.

lemonsqueasy Wed 27-Nov-19 08:22:17

And what are your thoughts on trans men? Or less important because they're not a threat to women?

Twooter Wed 27-Nov-19 08:22:35

I would be heartbroken for my children if they were unable to have children. The head of Mermaids is pushing infertility on confused teens.

iguanadonna Wed 27-Nov-19 08:22:35

Women can lose their jobs if they talk about their bodies and what it means to be female. A lot of internet sites shut down any discussion of the difference between sex and gender. So it's here anonymous feminist talk happens.

Twooter Wed 27-Nov-19 08:23:16

... having helped her own child get neutered at 16years old.

DickKerrLadies Wed 27-Nov-19 08:27:19

Yeah I meant gender when I said sex.

Ah ok. That makes much more sense - it's a bit early for me!

WRT 'believing a person can be trans', it depends what you mean by trans, as the word has a very wide definition now.

There are people who suffer from gender dysphoria, sometimes to the extent that those people want to make radical changes to their bodies. Some may choose to take cross-sex hormones, some may choose to get surgery on their breasts/chest, a few choose to get genital surgery.

These treatments aren't risk-free, and aren't always successful in stopping the dysphoria. There may be other mental health issues at hand. But, for the most part, we accept that adults have the right to do whatever they want to their own bodies (apart from conditions such as anorexia, or that tattooist/body modifier who went to court for splitting someone's tongue even though they wanted it done).

One of the hot topics here is the medicalisation and subsequent sterilisation of children, sometimes pre-puberty, who appear to be suffering from gender dysphoria (I say appear to be because I do think there are other issues at play in at least some of these children.

But aside from those suffering from gender dysphoria, trans also includes people who only 'identify' as the other sex and make no changes to their appearance. It includes men who identify as male one day and female another. And others.

I have to go now but I'll be back later!

tooyoungat40 Wed 27-Nov-19 08:27:20

I don't hate trans people anymore than I hate people with blue eyes. I don't think that their rights should trump those of biological women.

It's disingenuous to equate protection of women's rights with hatred of trans people.

But nice try OP

MrsKCastle Wed 27-Nov-19 08:28:32

And what are your thoughts on trans men? Or less important because they're not a threat to women?

Transmen - or more precisely females being accepted into male spaces - don't impact on women's rights in the same way.

However, many of us are very concerned about the amount of young females who are identifying as men. And the detransitioners who are speaking out.

IfWishesWereFishes Wed 27-Nov-19 08:31:09

I have no concerns about trans people.

I have huge and overwhelming concerns about self ID and the men who will use that to get into women's spaces to do them harm. As they already do.

I have concerns that two sets of rights seem to he pitted at odds with one another, and not by women: women's rights and trans rights. Apparently only one of these is also human rights. hmm

BertrandRussell Wed 27-Nov-19 08:32:25

The issue of transmen is interesting. There seem to be very few of them wanting to go into male prisons, or compete in men’s sport or wanting their crimes to be recorded on the male statistics. I have been hoping that a trans boy would apply for, say, Eton, to see what would happen.

Branleuse Wed 27-Nov-19 08:34:44

why is it that now if we disagree with someones beliefs or ideology, we now apparently hate that person or have a phobia?
Its the blasphemy laws all over again.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Wed 27-Nov-19 08:36:41

The hint is in the name- mumsnet.

Most posters on a site called mumsnet are going to be mothers.

Mothers tend to be concerned about children. Of course they are going to talk about an ideology, which has no credible evidence to support it, which threatens the physical and psychological health of children, which removes safeguards put in place to protect them from harm and from predatory behaviours.

Thanks at least in part to the mothers (and other women and some men) who frequent these boards the mainstream media is slowly waking up to the horrors of this ideology.

Even the BBC, wokeville central, has this week highlighted the damage being done to vulnerable children and young people. Has started to ask proper questions of the Tavistock clinic, of their lack of research, of their failure to explore comorbidities, of their lack of long term follow up of patients, of their failure to listen to parents.

It is my hope that the mainstream media will also highlight the grooming of children and vulnerable adults by followers of this unevidenced ideology both online and by institutions. That's exactly the sort of thing mothers tend to be concerned about and this is mumsnet.

2BthatUnnoticed Wed 27-Nov-19 08:36:45

As others have said, most posters here are trans, according to Stonewall.

Do we seem self-hating to you OP?

And yes, of course there are mums here with children affected, bizarre question confused

TheProdigalKittensReturn Wed 27-Nov-19 08:36:51

Looks like I may have to start another massive thread about the moderation...

lemonsqueasy Wed 27-Nov-19 08:38:18

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lemonsqueasy Wed 27-Nov-19 08:39:22

@Branleuse I said hate because I kept seeing trans women equated with rapists.

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