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Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

(1000 Posts)
Siameasy Sat 23-Nov-19 18:28:46

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

Uncompromisingwoman Sat 23-Nov-19 19:01:51

If it's for a prostrate / internal exam, then of course saraclara

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 23-Nov-19 19:01:53

It's worth noting that the originals of those notes were pertaining to a specific intimate procedure, a mammogram if I remember correctly.

That of course shouldn't make any difference, but I thought it was interesting the hospital chose to not mention that part.

DeeZastris Sat 23-Nov-19 19:02:57

If you have trust in professionals why not just get rid of chaperones all together? 🤦‍♀️

christmasathome Sat 23-Nov-19 19:03:41

Last week i had to go have an ultra sound and knew it was likely to need to be a vaginal one. I was horrified when i walked to a man. This was a planned procedure with about 3 weeks notice. I can't understand why it wasn't scheduled with a female. As soon as i was told they needed to do a vaginal one i asked for a female. None available so I'm now waiting for a new appointment. At no point did i think about his discomfort at being rejected. This is a very personal procedure and I don't think its unreasonable to be comfortable with your practitioner.

JasBBGG Sat 23-Nov-19 19:03:48

@Uncompromisingwoman this isn't representative of the vast majority of medics though is it? I have a male friend who is a GP he says his worst type of day is where he has a succession of female examinations, there is nothing he hates more and makes him uncomfortable because he knows they are. Most people aren't pervs. There will always be some "dodgy" people in all
Professions unfortunately. But given the shortage of medics professionals we face I don't see how this can be a choice. Again I would always prefer a female of course I would, I just recognise it isn't realistic. I think only around 30% of medical consultants are female anyway so you're looking at 30% of a pot that is too small if you need a consultant.
I am all for choice and female rights but I think this is unrealistic in the present climate.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 23-Nov-19 19:03:51

It's worth noting that

Sorry I skimmed the thread and missed that had already been pointed out blush

OhHolyJesus Sat 23-Nov-19 19:05:49

I've had a male GP examine me with a female chaperone. The Dr looked at my breasts whilst a female employee was the other side of the curtain. It was an emergency appointment, if it had been a routine appointment I would have requested a female HCP, because that would make me more comfortable. At no point will I be considering validating the 'lived experience' of an HCP when receiving treatment because it's completely irrelevant at a time when we are discussing MY health.

(I have read a story of a Dr which was rejected by a patient for surgery based on their skin colour which I think is truly awful.)

Michelleoftheresistance Sat 23-Nov-19 19:05:59

Whilst I appreciate people have religious views I don't think this should come in the way of your health.

I've also seen Madigan advise orthodox Jewish or Muslim or Jehovah's Witness women that they need to just get over their lifetime faith and beliefs if they happen to clash with the needs of someone identifying as a woman. Just put aside the inconvenient bits as they're a bit silly and out dated.

It doesn't show a whole lot of respect or empathy for others to put it mildly. Or much multi cultural awareness.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost Sat 23-Nov-19 19:06:46

his isn't representative of the vast majority of medics though is it


does it make the impact on women any less?

pombear Sat 23-Nov-19 19:07:55

So if a male patient says he'll only be treated by a male doctor, is that okay?

of course, why not?

Toseland Sat 23-Nov-19 19:08:23

I didn't care whether it was man, woman or an out and proud trans as long as she got seen
Yes but what did your Nan think?

Many people won’t mind but I think there should be an option.

Gwenhwyfar Sat 23-Nov-19 19:08:32

It's not just a trans issue is it? Sometimes you have to have a male doctor. I always ask for a female GP, but I know that if it's an emergency or a specialist is required, I might need to be seen by a man.
The only time I've seen this posted on a wall was when I was at A&E in a Muslim area and I agreed with it. You can't always refuse treatment from a male doctor.

Gwenhwyfar Sat 23-Nov-19 19:09:28

"So if a male patient says he'll only be treated by a male doctor, is that okay?

of course, why not?"

I've seen a male patient ask for a male GP. No problem with that.

JasBBGG Sat 23-Nov-19 19:10:23

@Michelleoftheresistance my mum, and indeed her whole family are JW. Yes I tell her it's ridiculous because it is. If she had needed a blood transfusion when I was a baby and I'd lost her my life would have been very different.

I get people have beliefs I'm surrounded by it. My belief is prioritise your health as you've not got much else without it.

FadingStar Sat 23-Nov-19 19:11:11

Having been around a number of male doctors on a personal level and heard the way they speak about their female patients (absolutely disgusting and the oblivious patients would have thought they were receiving good care, of that I have no doubt) I will NEVER see a male doctor for anything. And I don't care if their damn feelings get hurt.

forkfun Sat 23-Nov-19 19:11:54

I find it so sad that every time this topic crops up there are women who fail to understand why some women might choose to be treated by female healthcare professionals. Let me spell it out for you. I was sexually abused as a child and teenager of the course of about 6 years. I've had my body touched against my will by a male more than I care to remember. When I'm having a smear test, a breast exam or frankly even any other non-emergency procedure I much prefer being treated by a woman. I'm able to relax more. I don't have flashbacks or PTSD symptoms. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask this.

Uncompromisingwoman Sat 23-Nov-19 19:12:58

JasBBGG I take the sexual abuse / secret filming and abuse by male medics very seriously. If women prefer to protect themselves by asking for a female practitioner, then that right should be respected, especially for intimate procedures. It's a real worry when people who claim to be part of the medical profession choose to erode women's boundaries and shame them as has happened here.

MrsSnippyPants Sat 23-Nov-19 19:16:27

It’s ridiculous you should even have to spell it out forkfun. Women are allowed by law to request a female practitioner and should be allowed to do so, and be accommodated, where reasonable, just because THEY SAY SO.

Michelleoftheresistance Sat 23-Nov-19 19:16:39

This is trying to rationalise away women's right to say no.

This is not about general treatment, this is about specific situations involving intimate care in which it has always been accepted and made known to female patients that they can request a female hcp. No one is suggesting actually in these documents that women should not have the right to have a female hcp: they are just suggesting that if the woman hcp they send is in fact biologically male, the woman is not supposed to perceive them as male. So insisting that women should just accept male hcps in all circumstances is missing the point.

Yes you can actually always refuse treatment from a male doctor, and I've never worked anywhere that staff wouldn't do their best to find a female member of staff or find a way to get that patient feeling comfortable and safe. You do realise that some women will not attend for intimate care such as smears or mammograms if they cannot have a female hcp? Some will not be allowed to accept care under those circumstances. Many will come from groups that struggle to access healthcare.

birdsdestiny Sat 23-Nov-19 19:16:40

In addition to that

birdsdestiny Sat 23-Nov-19 19:18:11

Sorry about that! Was about to say if they are telling women that they are being treated by a woman when it is actually a man why on earth would I trust anything they said about my treatment.

Michelleoftheresistance Sat 23-Nov-19 19:19:22

Jas that's lovely for you. But can you accept that other women have different needs? Different perspectives? Because you telling them to get over it because you're ok probably isn't going to win many hearts and minds.

And expecting them just to get over it in this context is really, in essence about prioritising the wishes and feelings of transwomen over female patients and their best interests. About insisting that female people's first concern, even when receiving health care, is to prioritise the male in the situation.

JasBBGG Sat 23-Nov-19 19:20:32

And obviously if self ID wasn't allowed then it wouldn't be so much of an issue anyway - that I do get! If someone ID's as non binary and you can't tell what the f they are - what then?!

JasBBGG Sat 23-Nov-19 19:21:49

@Michelleoftheresistance I would never prioritise trans rights believe me.

pombear Sat 23-Nov-19 19:22:15

As I can't upload the image from Susan's twitter thread of NHS Glasgow and Clyde's advice, here's some of one of the 'case studies' referenced in the guidance:

A nurse is summoned to a patient's bed in a female ward. The patient appears to be agitated. When asked what's concerning her, the patient explains she didn't expect to be sharing a ward with a man and points to the bed opposite. She states it's inappropriate to have 'him' in the ward with the other women. She tells the nurse she can't relax and wants 'him' removed from the ward..... the nurse listens and tells the woman she'll see what she can do. She says she understands that having a transgender person on the ward will be upsetting to other women and leaves to talk with a senior colleague about the matter.

The response to the patient's concern isn't appropriate and breaches legislative protection afforded to transgender people. Someone's trans status can not be disclosed to a a third party without the expressed permission of the trans person and the assumption that others in the ward will feel uncomfortable is unfounded. In this instance there is no need to disclose or seek permission to disclose gender identity. The nurse should work to allay the patient's concerns - it would be appropriate to re-iterate that the ward is is indeed female and that there are no men present. Her duty of care extends to protect people from harrassment and should the woman continue to make demands about the removal of the transgender patient and be vocal in the ward about it would be appropriate to remind her of this. Ultimately it may be the complainant who is required to be removed.

Gaslight the concerned woman, criticise the nurse, and then remove the female patient if she continues with her concerns. As someone pointed out, interesting that the 'nurse' is stereotypically a 'she'!

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