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I Believe Her

(451 Posts)
Brittany2019 Fri 18-Oct-19 20:51:17

This is disappointing :

Karabair Fri 18-Oct-19 21:11:05

Guess Karen White's victims will just have to find another webpage to support them. Karen is their priority now.

OhHolyJesus Fri 18-Oct-19 22:31:16

I've suggested they change the name of the group.

Lots of people saying how glad they are to hear this, it's deeply depressing.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 18-Oct-19 22:34:15

They're pulling all the critical comments though. There have been masses.
They should have closed comments rather than just leaving the positive ones up - this is a dishonest way to handle it.

2BthatUnnoticed Fri 18-Oct-19 22:55:41

Does this group support female only rape crisis centres or not - does anyone know?

2BthatUnnoticed Fri 18-Oct-19 22:57:21

The statement is factually incorrect though. It is sex, not gender, that determines likelihood to sexually offend.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost Fri 18-Oct-19 23:01:29

this is a dishonest way to handle it.

The whole thing is based on dishonesty.

spongedog Fri 18-Oct-19 23:04:25

It really kicked off tonight.

I have now been blocked. Quite sad really. I have supported the page and its aims almost since it started. I may not have posted on the page itself a lot but I shared articles and posts from it.

Funnily enough it just makes me more determined not to be bullied on these issues.

ChipOnMyOvary Fri 18-Oct-19 23:16:22

Totally sick of the pretence that the presence of XY chromosomes has no correlation with propensity for violent and, particularly, sexual, crime. Do the stats.hmm

FrothyDragon Fri 18-Oct-19 23:21:29

Yes, it really kicked off, and I'm fucking disappointed in some of you.

I've been running that page since 2012, and some of you have NEVER showed your face in those comments except until tonight.

This was not about supporting transwomen who commit sexual violence, nor was it ignoring that they DO commit sexual violence, but I'm done with this attitude of throwing transwomen under the bus at the first opportunity.

I was originally a radical feminist, but I cannot stand by and watch transwomen be excluded from vital services. I cannot tolerate transphobia on the page if it discourages victims from coming forward. And I cannot accept the comments that came forward this evening.

If you all want your trans-exclusionary spaces on the internet, go and make them. But do not demand that I run a page in a way that suits you, if it goes against my own ethics, morals and values.

FrothyDragon Fri 18-Oct-19 23:22:29

Further more, I've deleted the comments because I do not know how to turn comments off. If anyone can tell me how to do so, I will, but if you'd just rather throw me under the bus, then carry on.

ChipOnMyOvary Fri 18-Oct-19 23:30:18

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ChipOnMyOvary Fri 18-Oct-19 23:33:50

Just to clarify, that's why said individuals should not be in female spaces...and the fact that we deserve dignity and privacysmile

SanFranBear Fri 18-Oct-19 23:34:34

YES, Sponge - their aim to raise awareness of and try and combat the ridiculously low conviction rate for rapists is absolutely something I believe in...

Sadly, rape, by it's very nature, disproportionately impacts women and this will never change (I often think of that poor transman who was mugged and then, when their attacker discovered their female body, was then raped..) so whilst I don't think they're wrong to raise the fact rape of transpeople occurs, I just can't agree that we have to pretend that the trans movement isn't making life more dangerous for women.

Instead of telling me to 'be nice' (argh, I am fucking sick of it) or unfollow (which I have), how about acknowledging that gender identity politics right now is poisonous problematic but all victims of sexual assault should all be supported.

GColdtimer Fri 18-Oct-19 23:35:50

Frothy you deleted some reasonable comments and the FOVAS report I shared but kept up the one saying fuck off terfs. I thought we were having a grown up conversation. I pointed out that actually saying that women shouldn’t have to use female pronouns if their attacker was Male, or refer to “her penis” would have you labelled a “T***“. I also shared a link to evidence about offending rates. Nothing I said was offensive but you deleted and banned me from the page. You don’t do that accidentally. I have been a massive supporter since you started. And yet you didn’t want to hear what I had to say so you closed me down. My friend can no longer access oxfird rape crisis. Being in the company of males sets of her ptsd. And they cannot guarantee her female space. She she has no support. She won’t access your page either now. So your inclusiveness excludes more that it includes. I’m less angry at your position and more angry ant the way you silenced women whilst keeping abusive messaged. Which are still there.

OccasionalKite Fri 18-Oct-19 23:41:16

I'm never ever, ever going to give up women's rights, for the sake of privileged men.

GColdtimer Fri 18-Oct-19 23:41:19

This is still there yet I’m banned and the FOVAS report removed hmm

PanemEtCircenses Fri 18-Oct-19 23:43:38

So another avenue of support has fallen for my transwidow friend who was repeatedly raped by her STBXH (who now demands their teen DD’s call him mum). sad

bettybeans Fri 18-Oct-19 23:46:45

"I believe him"

CarolDanvers Fri 18-Oct-19 23:47:13

I posted perfectly reasonably on there, pointing actual stats and evidence and you deleted my comments and blocked me. Now you've come stamping your feet here too. I'm cringing for you @FrothyDragon

FrothyDragon Fri 18-Oct-19 23:47:22

GColdtimer, when people like PosieParker turn up, and it quickly becomes clear it has become a pile on, then yes, emotion as an admin overtakes. And I specifically asked that that page did not become a space for the transgender debate, because I did not wish to further traumatise transgender individuals who may be following the page for support. Yes, I admit that I deleted some reasonable comments, but often after further unreasonable comments, or continuing the debate that I asked not to have on that page.

Some things may have been clumsily worded in the midst of my anger and frustration, but please. Tell me you'd have managed to keep everyone happy in your comments? And yes, places like Oxford Rape Crisis need to consider how they handle such cases, how they ensure that transgender people have access to services without causing PTSD for survivors of male violence.

I cannot keep everyone happy, but I cannot compromise my ethics, either.

OrchidInTheRain Fri 18-Oct-19 23:48:04

I thought it was a page to support women who are victims of sexual assault. Clearly not.

Jumblebee Fri 18-Oct-19 23:49:22

It's cowardly to delete comments from gender critical women yet keep the comments that slur women as TERFS and encourage violence towards them.

CarolDanvers Fri 18-Oct-19 23:49:27

Posie was not there when I was posting and you were merrily deleting multiple perfectly reasonable posts. I'm afraid "I DON'T believe you".

OrchidInTheRain Fri 18-Oct-19 23:49:44

You should just rename it to I Don't Believe Her. At least it would be honest.

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