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Non binary 12 year old on Today Program

(85 Posts)
PancakeAndKeith Thu 10-Oct-19 07:55:23

Quick post as I’m getting ready for work.

Boy said he was non binary and talked about how he didn’t feel that he fitted in.
However everyone referred to him by a male name and called him him.

It struck me that he was a very articulate and sensitive boy who was never going to fit in with the standard idea of masculinity. I wonder if he is struggling and the more gendered world of high school.

It’s a shame that children like him feel that they have to tie themselves in knots just because they don’t fit in with a stereotype.

Durgasarrow Thu 10-Oct-19 23:44:30

He can call himself whatever he wants, that doesn't make him something that doesn't fucking exist. Grown-ups shouldn't give airtime to children making shit up.

WineTastingNotTimeWasting Thu 10-Oct-19 23:17:47

Quite frankly he sounded like a pompous arse

MrGHardy Thu 10-Oct-19 20:19:26

"Boy said he was non binary and talked about how he didn’t feel that he fitted in."

NB is basically saying "my personality doesn't fit stereotypes of boy/girl".

That is all it is. The world is going crazy.

truthisarevolutionaryact Thu 10-Oct-19 19:23:12

Just listened to this on catch up and yes, Stephanie was outstanding.
Clear, knowledgeable and respectful about children. She really knows her stuff.

SonicVersusGynaephobia Thu 10-Oct-19 19:16:26

and a body without breasts (a female secondary sexual characteristic) is not "non-binary" - it's seeing a male body as the default or neutral or the "universal."

Very good point "Mouthy*, hadn't occurred to me before.

It disturbed me in the Scottish census committee they had ths Scottish Trans Alliance non-binary (female) Vic Valentine in, and when someone (maybe Joan) mentioned that the data would be used for planning healthcare etc, Vic casually mentioned that lots of non-binary females probably have hysterectomies so sex data wasn't relevant for cervical screening numbers. hmm

Anyway... Stephanie was fantastic. Flawless. She came across as very caring and compassionate, and got all her points in clearly; it was great NR allowed her to speak.

Coffeeandchocolate9 Thu 10-Oct-19 18:52:00

I asked my dog and she said despite a hysterectomy she's definitely still female. What a bitch.

BarbaraStrozzi Thu 10-Oct-19 16:33:43

"whatabattery". [grin,]

squishee Thu 10-Oct-19 16:19:36

Anyway, to get back on-topic. As per a PP, how is it better to reject the binary reality so much as to become "trinary"?

squishee Thu 10-Oct-19 16:01:21

And now it's dogs? Honestly.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 10-Oct-19 15:38:12

Dog just got it! Arf 🦇

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 10-Oct-19 15:37:54

Nope just curious. Genuinely.

squishee Thu 10-Oct-19 15:27:16

These questions about bats are nothing but whatabattery.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 10-Oct-19 15:13:59

Bats? What about bats??

BarbariansMum Thu 10-Oct-19 15:13:04

Haha @LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD the thing about being a zoologist is that you think all sorts of animals are interesting. These days I mostly do ants, amphibians and reptiles and I think they're fascinating. An aardvark would be totally awesome but I dont think my wood ants would agree.

SarahTancredi Thu 10-Oct-19 15:06:17

I'm.also concerned about all this being done in public.

Between puberty blockers and being paraded on TV or radio or media as something special they constantly make it impossible for kids to every change their minds.

Why is this?

Why does it have to be so public. Its deliberately manipulative.

SarahTancredi Thu 10-Oct-19 14:57:15

Thank you to whoever's posted the link!!

I've just listened and I too was disturbed how little the head teacher seemed to know. He sounded unprepared next to stephanie who did well to get in how serious the non binary identity can be and what it can lead to. I dont think the head had realised that..

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 10-Oct-19 13:17:36

@BarbariansMum oooh a zoologist? That sounds really interesting! I hope you get to work with interesting creatures (not aardvarks or sloths).

ErrolTheDragon Thu 10-Oct-19 13:13:27

We had snails too, Arnold- they're great pets for small children, just liberate them when you go on holiday and collect some new ones when you return or if any expire. It's quite easy to set up a habitat for them. I can't imagine why anyone shells out(sorry) for those giant African ones.

We had a 'pregnant' woodlouse with tiny babies once too.

PancakeAndKeith Thu 10-Oct-19 13:05:49

Actually I totally get why "non- binary" seems like a good option when you feel that your other choices are "toxic masculinity " on the one hand, and "hyper-femininity " on the other.

I completely agree.
It’s the stereotypes that need to change.
This boy should be happy being who he is and behaving the way he does. Not trying to slot into a new box.

BarbariansMum Thu 10-Oct-19 13:04:51

Speaking as a zoologist, his grip on biology was no worse than that of the average person in the street.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Thu 10-Oct-19 13:04:29

When my son was small he took a notion for a pet snail, so I figured what the hey, we can gather a few up and stick them in a pot with a lid, they're snails, they'll probably won't live long. Naturally his sister also insisted on having snails even though she thought they were slimy and horrible, so we ended up bring about a dozen home.

Hoo boy was I wrong about snails. Little buggers live forever and produce their entire body weight in shit every single day!

Still, my boy did get a nice certificate for 'interesting contributions to show and tell' out of it.

(I'll stop derailing now)

ErrolTheDragon Thu 10-Oct-19 12:49:53

* I just can't reconcile the 'he's so mature' with the 'he's so staggeringly ill informed he just compared humans to worms'.*

The very first book DD chose to bring home from the school library was 'The Life Cycle of the Snail'. Somehow even at 4 years old she wasn't in the least confused by the fact that they're hermaphrodites but most other creatures - including people - aren't. Neither did she have much time for stupid stereotypes as to what she should or shouldn't be interested in or wear.

Goosefoot Thu 10-Oct-19 12:27:17

I just can't reconcile the 'he's so mature' with the 'he's so staggeringly ill informed he just compared humans to worms'.

I wonder if some people who say things like this just don't spend much time with children. Some children are very good at repeating what they hear around them from adults, and it's easy to mistake that for some kind of real insight or understanding. But they often don't understand the words in an adult way at all.

MouthyHarpy Thu 10-Oct-19 12:14:32

Especially concerning is the issue of mastectomy for young women, so they can achieve what they believe is a 'non-binary' body.

Yes, SisterWendy - and a body without breasts (a female secondary sexual characteristic) is not "non-binary" - it's seeing a male body as the default or neutral or the "universal."

Melroses Thu 10-Oct-19 12:09:31

Actually I totally get why "non- binary" seems like a good option when you feel that your other choices are "toxic masculinity " on the one hand, and "hyper-femininity " on the other.

If you look at the mermaid etc charts, with Barbie on one side and GI Joe on the other reinforcing this idea, then everyone is in between. Young children are very open to stereotypes when they are trying to work out what makes them male or female. I remember my little brother refusing to flush the toilet, then crying when I told him to, because "boys don't flush toilets" when he was about 5 years old grin hmm They are busy learning from what is around them.

Stephanie Arai-Davies was so good. She really does know her stuff and I think that explaining that 'non-binary' leads onto pathways of hormones and mastectomy, without coming over as sensationalist was really well handled.

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