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Toilets - what do we want?

(325 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

Mxyzptlk Sun 01-Sep-19 18:52:54

We don't want men in women's toilets, okay.
Do we want single sex toilets as they've been until now? Can those be maintained against the trans onslaught?
What about the trans rights we say we care about? How can they be upheld without affecting women's right to safe toilets?

What do you think would be the ideal situation, fair to everyone?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 01-Sep-19 18:55:54

Lots of female only toilet. Fewer male toilets.
Sufficient disabled toilets. Some fully enclosed gender neutral toilets for anyone who feels uncomfortable in the toilet of their birth sex.

In an ideal.world obviously.

Lifeinthelastlane Sun 01-Sep-19 18:56:18

What are you asking exactly? confused Single sex toilets, some separate cubicle style ones for those who want them (same as disabled ones but not taking away the disabled ones!). Caring about trans rights doesn't mean giving away rights to a single sex toilet.

testing987654321 Sun 01-Sep-19 18:59:40

I went to a festival recently which has always been pretty good with toilet provision. They asked about mixed sex toilets and after getting feedback went for mostly separate facilities with multiple cubicles (standard ladies/gents) but also provided a number of "gender neutral" single units. I think that's a good mix.

Juells Sun 01-Sep-19 19:01:10

Why can't men be more accepting? Why is it up to women to budge up always?

Teddypicker1 Sun 01-Sep-19 19:05:54

Female toilets, disabled and gender neutral. Do away with the mens.

AnotherAdultHumanFemale Sun 01-Sep-19 19:05:57

What about the trans rights we say we care about? How can they be upheld without affecting women's right to safe toilets?

What do you think would be the ideal situation, fair to everyone?

Er, they can use the male toilets, in line with their biological sex. I thought that was pretty obvious.

Juells Sun 01-Sep-19 19:19:29

It's not up to women to solve the problems of the world. How is upholding trans rights our job? This is like some kind of confidence trick - because people keep claiming it's women's responsibility, women are believing them. I don't.

SpartacusAutisticus Sun 01-Sep-19 19:20:34

What about the trans rights we say we care about?

This is a feminism board. I'm a feminist. I care about women's rights. I don't care for demands that impinge on women's rights.

Before anyone starts campaigning for toilets based on identity we should ensure that there are adequate toilets for disabled people who actually have no access to toilets and support campaigns for single sex toilets for refugee women and girls.

Only once basic and universal provision is achieved should we start looking at toilet preferences, and until then, as every human is one sex or the other, separate sex toilets which are necessary to reflect biological differences in toileting needs seem perfectly adequate.

HermioneWeasley Sun 01-Sep-19 19:21:07

I want sufficient female only and disabled toilets. Not bothered after that.

helpmeiamatoad Sun 01-Sep-19 19:23:58

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BeaverPeron Sun 01-Sep-19 19:24:57

Ok. I don't want men in my toilet. but at work I'm faced with a situation where it's assumed we will have unisex toilets. Why should I agree to that? And why is it ok to say I don't want men? I just don't want men in my toilet. I will be accused of being a bigot if I say anything. I have been attacked by men in the past, but don't feel scared of men on a daily basis. I don't think any of the men at work will attack me. I just don't want to pee next to a man. (or change my mooncup, or check my lipstick).

(And there's no trans people at work, but lots of gay people and few men actually).

LittleMy20 Sun 01-Sep-19 19:25:08

More women’s toilets, more disabled and a couple of unisex child’s toilet cubicles in every facility would be ideal.

AnotherAdultHumanFemale Sun 01-Sep-19 19:30:50

@helpmeiamatoad Well ideally, yes. Because trans women are male, they should be broadening the definition of what it means to be a man. Because of male homophobia and aggression, and also validation, they want to use our toilets. This isn't fair, because it means women are forced to accept gender non conforming males into our bathrooms due to male on male violence.

Real progression would be men being allowed to wear dresses, makeup and skirts and still being happy with their bodies, proud to be male, and accepted by society.

Since we seem to be going backwards, I think female only toilets, male toilets and gender neutral toilets would be a good compromise.

AnotherAdultHumanFemale Sun 01-Sep-19 19:32:17

Also, there is no such thing as 'fully transitioning into a woman' because having surgery doesn't make males magically become females.

Wurzelsnewhead Sun 01-Sep-19 19:36:14

Ask Dadsnet, why can men not accept other biological males in female clothing? They’re only in there to have a quick wee, why can’t men accept mtf people are nothing to be scared of in their spaces. Mtf rights are men’s rights too, not just human rights ( whatever that means).
As a woman I’d say more female toilets, disabled toilets, a unisex space ( carved out of existing men’s loos) for those who wish to use it and a stop to disgusting outdoor urinals.

AnotherAdultHumanFemale Sun 01-Sep-19 19:44:09

Ask Dadsnet, why can men not accept other biological males in female clothing? They’re only in there to have a quick wee, why can’t men accept mtf people are nothing to be scared of in their spaces. Mtf rights are men’s rights too, not just human rights ( whatever that means).

Exactly. Why does nobody ask men to 'be a bit nicer,' 'be kind,' 'be fair,' 'budge up a bit' and 'stop being so mean.'

I'm absolutely sick of both men and women telling other women they 'need to be kinder and stop being so mean' when we are trying to protect our rights and our spaces. Nobody says this to men, ever. Men continue to rape and murder and nobody ever says to men 'would you mind awfully not doing that, thanks.'

Why are expectations of men so low? Why are women always expected to do everything, cede everything, help everyone and put everyone else before themselves at all times?

MsMcWibble Sun 01-Sep-19 19:47:34

More women's loos. More disabled loos.
Men can look after themselves. They always do.
If some males want separate facilities, they can campaign for them, like women had to. Not at the expense of women's facilities.

FleetsumNJetsum Sun 01-Sep-19 19:48:15

What do you think would be the ideal situation, fair to everyone?

What would be fair is for you to ask this question of men.

What will men do to accommodate the transwomen, and the trans rights they say they care about?

Why is it always the women sorting out men's problems?

Blakes77 Sun 01-Sep-19 19:49:20

Just, you know, the Ladies, the Gents and lots of disabled toilets and unisex baby change facilities. That's it really.

Ohflippineck Sun 01-Sep-19 19:49:57

Unisex toilets and family cubicles. Used 2 at loos in Devon last week, no-one seemed to have a problem with them.

EmpressLesbianInChair Sun 01-Sep-19 19:51:16

Even if they have fully transitioned and pass as a woman? In that case they would be in just as much danger using the men’s toilets as a biological woman would.

Instead of putting all the onus on women to give up our spaces, trans campaigning groups like Stonewall should be pushing for ALL men to be safe in male toilets, whether they present as male or not. Men like Owen Jones & Jolyon Maugham should be leading the way in this, and Debbie Hayton, Kristina Harrison etc could also make a huge difference by setting an example.

Trohmaniac Sun 01-Sep-19 19:52:49

We don't want men in women's toilets, okay.

I mean...you had it in your first sentence. That's what it boils down to for me. I don't want men in women's toilets,.

MsMcWibble Sun 01-Sep-19 19:55:42

I don't care if some women don't have a problem with unisex. These women cannot give up the rights of the rest of us. Unisex toilet are more dangerous for women.
Go and be magnanimous in your own spaces.

Mxyzptlk Sun 01-Sep-19 19:57:28

Thanks for the replies.

Lots of female only toilet. Fewer male toilets.
Sufficient disabled toilets. Some fully enclosed gender neutral toilets for anyone who feels uncomfortable in the toilet of their birth sex.

That does seem to cover it smile

The more fully enclosed, gender neutral toilets with sinks the better, I'd say.
Although I'd still feel slightly embarrassed exiting the gender neutral cubicle straight into a public area.
Careful planning of the space could avoid that.

Oh well, I expect it will all be sorted out right after I win the lottery, and I don't even buy a ticket.

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