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Transwoman murderer/torturer - sex change on NHS

(43 Posts)
thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 11:36:06

I missed this.

Does anyone know if this has gone ahead?

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 11:37:15

...meant to post this in feminist chat

Prequelle Sun 24-Mar-19 11:38:25

Not sure but it's infuriating. We are rationing care everywhere else yet spending thousands on transitions

Meanwhile every few months my mum has to spend 7 days+ in hospital because her periods don't stop and her blood doesn't clot, she needs transfusions. Will they give her a hysterectomy though? Will they balls.

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 11:41:16

That fucking outrageous- I’m sorry for your mother flowers

I’m just wondering if there is any means to protest this and who that would be directed to?

Treaclesweet Sun 24-Mar-19 11:47:01

Blame the bankers who crashed the economy, blame austerity starving the NHS of cash, blame the billionaire's keeping their untaxed wealth in tax havens.

Trans people are not the reason the NHS is starved of cash. Do you really seek to remove human rights from prisoner's?

Grace212 Sun 24-Mar-19 11:52:08

Prequelle that is insanity, your poor mum.

she should write to her local MP about that and tell the GP she is doing that.

sorry, as you were...

Tomtontom Sun 24-Mar-19 11:52:19

What @Treaclesweet said.

We should all be entitled to receive the healthcare that we need. We don't receive it because of cuts to NHS funding, not because of the needs of another patient. Look to the root cause of the problem, not a scapegoat (even if the scapegoat is an utter scumbag), as that deflects from the real issue.

Tomtontom Sun 24-Mar-19 11:55:00

@Prequelle Has your mum asked for the reasoning behind their refusal? If they claim it is cost related, point out that the cost of numerous non surgical stays will fast outweigh the cost of a single procedure that remedies the problem.

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:22:01

This isn’t a vital or life saving operation. I most certainly wish to remove the rights of unnecessarily spending 80k worth of NHS money on pandering to a murderer~torturer-sexual predator

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:27:42

Since being imprisoned (for anally raping a man with a rolling pin and beating him yo death) he has since sexually assaulted and sexually pursued women in the women’s prison he has been housed in.


GerryblewuptheER Sun 24-Mar-19 12:27:49

Fully functioning healthy bodies should not be given surgical priority over those who suffer from life altering conditions or require life saving surgery.

Whereas I dont always agree that someone's criminal status should render then less worthy ( I'm not God) of receiving medical care, an elective procedure that is purely cosmetic should be further down the list to someones who's ability to function normally is an impossibility.

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:29:30

^^ agree Gerry. Life saving treatment should be given indiscriminately...that’s a given.

IdaBWells Sun 24-Mar-19 12:33:41

I am not sure why an elective surgery for a trans individual does get priority over Prequelle's mum?

I of course would not want prisoners to lose their access to healthcare but I don't agree that "transition" surgery should be available on the NHS at all. It is not life saving or essential and in fact will involve constant hormones and drugs for the rest of the individuals life. Surgeries such as these were actually stopped at John Hopkins University, the most elite medical establishment in the USA, because research showed that 20 years later patients were MORE suicidal so it did not solve psychological conditions.

buzzbobbly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:34:17

It's not an isolated incident.

Elective boob jobs should be prioritised above mastectomies for women with breast cancer; and it not being that was is "fata" apparently hmm

Shows exactly how little some individuals value women/womanhood.

buzzbobbly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:35:05

Oh? No Pic?

Trying again and also link with same image.

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:37:04

buzzbobbly surely no one lacks that much self awareness. Astounding.

GerryblewuptheER Sun 24-Mar-19 12:42:15

buzzbobblysurely no one lacks that much self awareness. Astounding

You have clearly never read the horrific garbage that states that as rape is about power , and trans people are the most oppressed members of society they have no power over cis women therefore it is not possible for them to rape them . Or words to that effect

thebluearsefly Sun 24-Mar-19 12:43:57


Sounds like science!

GerryblewuptheER Sun 24-Mar-19 12:55:13

about as scientific as the different mouth feel and feminine smell of the female penis

buzzbobbly Sun 24-Mar-19 13:37:01

thebluearsefly surely no one lacks that much self awareness. Astounding.

Strangely not at all but I know not one female in my entire life who would ever prioritise themselves in a similar fashion.

Prequelle Mon 25-Mar-19 05:56:12

I've discussed it with the surgeons myself because coincidently it's MY ward she comes onto when she needs help. But it's not a priority despite her risking death every time. It's madness.

anniehm Mon 25-Mar-19 06:24:39

Trust me, it's seriously rationed! This is an outlier. Even getting an appointment for a first visit is hard for trans so most go private if they can. DD's friends are all bar one private patients, and the nhs one is at practice who are a teaching practice so have a different set up.

ThroughThickAndThin01 Mon 25-Mar-19 06:37:40

Yanbu. Absolutely not.

Aridane Mon 25-Mar-19 06:42:08

I agree with treacle

axil Mon 25-Mar-19 06:55:36

If trans prisoners can get full surgery on the NHS, then female prisoners should be able to get breast reductions. Women needing/wanting one often suffer emotional and physical distress prior to having one. I had back and neck pain for years that no physio, chiropractor or osteopath could fix. I worked out, did lots of back strengthening exercises but couldn't escape the pain until they were reduced. I'm betting there are female prisoners in the same situation. It's also a cheaper operation and needs no ongoing hormones/medication.

I'm betting a woman wanting a breast reduction in prison would get laughed at and sent on her way.

I'd be interested to know the number of gender change surgeries (cos nobody's sex gets changed) per trans prison population are carried out vs the non-prison population. It seems like a relatively high proportion of the trans prison population, given that it's small, get their (sexual) desires pandered to in this way.

buzzbobbly Mon 25-Mar-19 07:39:30

Unfortunately this research does not cover the exact query of how many operations carried out in prison (I suspect the MOJ would not have/not be willing to provide info in any case), but the enormous prevalence of sex offending amongst trans prisoners is shocking.

* 41% of trans women prisoners are there for sex offences (national male figure is more like a fifth)
* Half of the entire tw prison population is behind bars for sex offences OR crimes so serious they warrant a category A prison.
* These crimes are being recorded as female crime (women only make up 5% of the whole prison population, so this will seriously distort statistics)
* of the information available, there are no female trans people (trans men) listed as being in prison

MichaelMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 25-Mar-19 08:29:05

[OP intended this to be in FWR so we've moved it over]

AstonishedFemalePersonator Mon 25-Mar-19 08:33:42

Fully functioning healthy bodies should not be given surgical priority over those who suffer from life altering conditions or require life saving surgery.


LetsSplashMummy Mon 25-Mar-19 09:36:17

I think that this surgery should still have the "lived in proposed gender for two years," caveat and that years in prison do not count.

What are these years for? They are so the person makes an informed cost/benefit analysis and decision. Prison is a totally artificial environment, I can see that someone who feels comfortable being a trans woman in prison, where legally their demands are met and people have to pretend, would not be prepared for life as such in the outside world. I actually think it's quite immoral to allow this kind of decision in such an environment.

That's before we consider everyone else....

HerFemaleness Mon 25-Mar-19 09:47:30

Do you really seek to remove human rights from prisoner's?

That's an interesting philosophical question. Is it a human right to demand the government remove perfectly healthy body parts? I would argue no. And you?

Spokk Mon 25-Mar-19 10:02:44

Not a human right, no. Horrifying the precedence these people have, especially as I would argue that having to have a monthly blood transfusion is pretty damn life threatening.
I am wondering if this is the government’s ruinously expensive version of chemical castration? “Please please catrate me!” “Oh, go on, as you asked so nicely”.

Obvs. Not the same as what is happening to children, which I think is disgusting, and should never have been allowed, whether at 16 as claimed or pre-pubescent, as also claimed.

happydappy2 Mon 25-Mar-19 10:18:04

If a trans prisoner needs psychiatric help, whilst in prison, fine. 80k of sex reassignment surgery is totally not ok. Why should tax payers money be used to placate a dangerous sexual predator?

Babdoc Mon 25-Mar-19 10:30:31

You shouldn’t call it sex change surgery, OP.
Changing sex is physically impossible.
It’s just surgery to remove normal body parts and create a cosmetic imitation of the opposite sex, in a usually unsuccessful attempt to reduce psychiatric morbidity in patients with gender dysphoria.

axil Mon 25-Mar-19 10:58:35

Agree with Babduc

FeministCat Mon 25-Mar-19 11:42:20


- Why do you consider a cosmetic surgery a “human right”?

- Are you aware that over 50% of transwoman prisoners are sexual predators?

- Are you aware many of these prisoners wishing to transition are doing it for access to women’s prisons - either for what they see as “cushier” accommodations or worse, for access to women? That they only seem to start identifying as trans once charged or imprisoned? See Karen White.

- Do you think autogynephilia should be treated with cosmetic surgery?

FeministCat Mon 25-Mar-19 11:52:46

anniehm “trust me it’s seriously rationed!”

Not anymore it’s not. Not if you are a prisoner. Not if you are a child after what Mermaids has done to those safeguards. Are you aware of what has been happening with Tavistock lately? How their former staff governor has expressed concern about the lack of safeguarding and looking at other factors before medical transition?

Not U.K. based but you should also watch the documentary on YouTube that peachyyoghurt translated. It shows very well the push to transition and to skip steps, and we know that is happening in the U.K. too.

It’s alarming to me alone that your DD apparently has multiple friends who are identifying as trans - that should be setting off alarm bells, and in that case “rationing” is better than speeding things up through going private.

DangermousesSidekick Mon 25-Mar-19 18:49:22

Meanwhile every few months my mum has to spend 7 days+ in hospital because her periods don't stop and her blood doesn't clot, she needs transfusions. Will they give her a hysterectomy though? Will they balls.

That is some serious bleeding if not exaggerated. Check the reason for refusal as a pp said - it could be that they fear extra surgery in someone who's blood won't clot will push them straight into lethal territory.

HumansCannotEverChangeSex Mon 25-Mar-19 19:54:28

DangermousesSidekick I agree, if she doesn’t clot then surgery is a huge risk. Then again, bleeding every few months and needing transfusions is also a risk. It seems the lesser of the two evils is to risk the surgery and then after that there isn’t anymore risks to take. It’s shocking that women are left to suffer in such ways that no man ever would.

Prequelle Tue 26-Mar-19 11:45:12

dangerous not exaggerated. In the past year she has been hospitalised with Hb levels of 56, 67 and 63.

She spends months with her clotting factors being fine. She could have the surgery then. Her gastro consultant wants her to have it. Gynae-surgery wanted her to have it. But they cant get her on the list as it isn't emergent or part of the cancer pathway national targets.

Like I said I work on the ward where she would have this, I know that if her coags are too deranged they cant operate full stop, but there are periods of time where she could if someone actually listed her.

I've seen this sort of stuff professionally as well as personally. Not just in gynae, but breast surgeries. I can understand because I know how badly the NHS is struggling but as it is struggling I really can't find the sympathy for people who want surgery on demand purely for cosmetic reasons whilst operating under the false illusion that it'll improve their mental health (suicide rates don't actually go down following transition surgery)

SmellsLikeAdultSpirit Tue 26-Mar-19 11:51:04

The surgery isn't evidenced based so I don't think the NHS should fund it anyway
It needs proper research and not lobby groups to decide on the most appropriate course of action

OldCrone Tue 26-Mar-19 13:15:43

This surgery is purely cosmetic. Why is a prisoner getting cosmetic surgery on the NHS?

misscockerspaniel Tue 26-Mar-19 14:19:56

Did anyone else see BBC Breakfast this morning and the story about the boy and his prosthetic arm? It cost £10,000 and they had to fund it themselves. The NHS wouldn't pay for it yet this murderer is entitled to £80,000 worth of cosmetic surgery?

IdaBWells Tue 02-Apr-19 08:54:54

misscockerspaniel that is truly horrifying and offensive.

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