Talk

Advanced search

MRAs coming to Winchester University

(75 Posts)
winchfem Wed 27-Feb-19 01:54:45

Hi everyone,

I've name-changed as this is quite outing, but I wanted to ask for some support regarding a problem at my university. I've learned today that two members of Justice for Men and Boys, namely Mike Buchanan and William Collins, have been booked by a member of staff to give talks on the first of March. Many people I know have rallied to create a petition which might at least postpone these events if not cancel them completely. I was hoping, if you can spare the time, that some users in this topic might be able to lend their signatures?

The petition can be found here.

I really appreciate it if you can but have no hard feelings if you can't, it just seemed like the best place to ask. Thanks in advance.

theOtherPamAyres Wed 27-Feb-19 11:07:09

There's nothing wrong with the idea that men should highlight what they see as 'injustices' and discrimination.

In fact, it's a good thing when they want to discuss, debate and talk about perceived injustices.

Before prejudging the speakers, I would want to hear what they had to say and consider their evidence. Even if I didn't like what I heard, I defend their right to speak.

I don't want to see censorious, authoritarian no-platforming. A diverse and inclusive society has room for everyone.

NotTerfNorCis Wed 27-Feb-19 18:32:42

Buchanan is saying on Twitter that the talk has been cancelled because of the petition. He's posted the content online if anyone is curious. twitter.com/MikeBuchanan11/status/1100768907093311488?s=19

RiverTam Wed 27-Feb-19 18:38:01

I don’t think that is a good outcome, tbh, and certainly doesn’t help women battling against beingno platformed.

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 18:46:16

Intetesting that the success of no platforming feminists has led to this.

We (women in general) have protested and in some cases stopped mra speaking, that pua recently women complained and I think he was barred from coming into country (would need to check) also there was a lot of hooha about Mike tyson coming, from feminist groups.

There needs to be a line. Problem is it came and bit us in the arse.

I would say that more hardcore mra s do incite crime against women and I don't think they should have a platform for that.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly Wed 27-Feb-19 18:50:53

Mike Buchanan talks about himself in the third person! Of course he does

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly finds it strangely satisfying

NotTerfNorCis Wed 27-Feb-19 18:51:40

From what I've seen, MRAs incite less violence than TRAs. They certainly loathe feminists and blame us for everything wrong with the world, but they don't often threaten to punch us or wish a few of us in the morgue to scare the rest.

MargueritaPink Wed 27-Feb-19 18:52:33

I believe that proper permission had been obtained, but in the event there was a student-led petition against it. The result was that Eric was put under a lot of stress over the matter and I and the other invited speaker (William Collins) volunteered to pull out from concern over Eric

Spectacular own goal Winchester students. You have managed to make him the victim.

I've read his speech. Most of it is very easy to counter.

I take his point about AWS, which I do not support, and that like for like job comparison have the potential to be not at all like for like. He also has a point that screening for prostate cancer does not have anything like the profile for breast or cervical cancer

But the rest? If students could not have debated and challenged It- poor show.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly Wed 27-Feb-19 18:55:24

This is a man who believes that unless a man has signed a contract to agree to conceive, he shouldn't have to support his offspring

what with men having no opposable thumbs so being unable to put on condoms

winchester students, taking the piss out of this chap would have been both a public service and properly fun. shame

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:01:12

NotTerf some are pro rape though.

MRA is a broad church. Eliot Rodger was one. Some are very very dangerous men, some know how to just walk the side of line on the side of the law.

TRA are a subset of MRA, in general.

The idea that MRA are not danegrous to women is untrue. They are very dangerous, some of them.

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:05:52

Do you all disagree with this decision
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/19/julien-blanc-barred-entering-uk-pick-up-artist

or this one even
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/10/mike-tyson-banned-uk-rape-conviction

I think there needs to be caution when moving from barring people from speaking is OK in some circs to, oh look feminists are being no platformed we need to let everyone speak and just laugh at them.

There is a middle ground here.

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:08:06

Mike Tyson is a slightly different onw HOWEVER I believe at the time the reason the HO looked at it was because of a MASSIVE public outcry from women esp feminists.

There was a law that could stop him but I believe the reason it was invoked was because of the fuss.

I understand why women on the thread are saying what they are saying but to remove all barriers is too far for me and feels a bit baby / bathwater.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 27-Feb-19 19:11:14

The petition had just over 700 signatures. I find it hard to believe that was enough pressure to get the event cancelled. It seems like an very easy win for them, plus extra publicity plus extra traffic for the transcript of his speech online.

NotTerfNorCis Wed 27-Feb-19 19:11:48

True NothingOnTellyAgain. MRAs represent misogynists, and some misogynists are violent.

This is a man who believes that unless a man has signed a contract to agree to conceive, he shouldn't have to support his offspring

But Buchanan also opposes abortion. And social support for single mothers. He does support prostitution though.

What I don't get is... Ok he hates women and wishes harm on them. But surely half of these kids, living in poverty with prostituted mothers, would be boys? Is his hatred so great, he thinks their suffering is a price worth paying?

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:17:44

Yes is the short answer.

Hatred for women outweighs care for children even male ones.

I mean you read about men who won't pay to support their own children, the excuse being that they see the money as going to the mum and why should they pay her for anything,

This bloke is hardly going to get the sads over kids that aren't even his.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly Wed 27-Feb-19 19:21:45

yes, I must admit I had seen the speaking about himself in the third person thing and just thought 'what a knob', but i dipped into his twitter feed and hurriedly dipped out again

this dude really hates women

the only good thing is that nobody on twitter seems to be very interested in what he has to say

Bowlofbabelfish Wed 27-Feb-19 19:26:55

I’m very much against nonplatforming.

Go, and rip the piss out of him. That’s the British way.

donquixotedelamancha Wed 27-Feb-19 19:27:19

*I think there needs to be caution when moving from barring people from speaking is OK in some circs to, oh look feminists are being no platformed we need to let everyone speak and just laugh at them.
There is a middle ground here.*

I agree there is a middle ground, indeed some restriction of speech is needed to allow a more plural society. The US is not as free as the UK in many ways because those with power exercise it to exclude those without. The legal right to free speech is no use if it costs you your job.

Still I think the general rule that universities should not be banning speakers for being controversial holds true.

ScrimshawTheSecond Wed 27-Feb-19 19:28:45

If they are banned or no-platformed it will only fuel their arguments. Streisand effect.

Let them talk, debate them if you can be bothered, picket if you think it's worth it. If someone has nasty views, far better that they are out in the open where we can see them.

DonaldTwain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:34:27

Banning is justified if he’s inciting people to commit crime or if there’s serious risk of disorder. Not otherwise. Much better to let him turn up, point and laugh.
Ps he hasn’t spotted the issue with male children cos he’s fucking thick as pig plops

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:40:04

That's where the law lies at the moment, I think, Donald.

I wouldn't agree with giving anyone who incites or celebrates eg genocide a platform, as an example.

In Germany it is illegal to publicly be a holocaust denier.

I really do think some boundaries are necessary.

There are things like the zones around abortion clinics as well where I am also not in favour of "free speech" (harrassing women using the clinic).

I am really concerned that the moment we (women) get banned there is a total change of tack to anything goes and I don't think that's right either.

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 19:41:30

Free speech is also the argument pornogaphers use.

In a society with no barriers to "free speech" women and children lose, I am sure.

scotsheather Wed 27-Feb-19 19:47:29

Why are you so opposed? Free speech is a fundamental right as we have said ourselves.

donquixotedelamancha Wed 27-Feb-19 19:49:34

Banning is justified if he’s inciting people to commit crime or if there’s serious risk of disorder.

That's where the law lies at the moment, I think, Donald.

UK law always drew the line somewhat narrower than that. I worry that it has gone a little far of late. Google the Nazi pug for a good legal example.

In a society with no barriers to "free speech" women and children lose, I am sure.

This is absolutely true, but it's not what we are discussing. We are discussing a society where billboards saying 'Woman: Adult human female' are pulled down and where people are questioned under caution for rudeness.

The OP is not about the law, it is about debate in a university setting. There is clear guidance from the DfE that this should be as free as possible and most Brits would agree with that position.

NothingOnTellyAgain Wed 27-Feb-19 20:04:38

I know what you're all discussing grin

I'm disagreeing that absolute free speech >> is a great answer to anything.

I am not talking about this specific case but in general. That PUA got banned from coming here. I think, good result.

That's my only point.

You are all fully within your rights to disagree with me, obviously!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer Wed 27-Feb-19 20:05:15

The petition had just over 700 signatures

I doubt all 700 were students

And there are 7000+ students at Winchester

Most of whom probably dont give a shiny shit who speaks there

Shame its been no platformed, just more ammunition as pp have said

Join the discussion

Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Get started »