A dream last night about the Olympics *lighthearted*

[OhHolyJesus]

So I was reading and talking about McKinnon and Navratilova last Nast before bed and I dreamt that I'm the women's running there were two transwomen who went for it and all the women stayed behind at starters blocks in protest. Both transwomen kept running so to beat each other and the crowd was in uproar. Then when it was over and the transwomen were sad not to have had a proper inclusive race, the women started themselves off and competed as women against women.

It made me wonder why women athletes aren't boycotting races where it is blatantly unfair, I understand they are training for a reason and they earn money and they take it seriously but I also think someone has to make a stand so changes will be made and all of women's sport won't go to hell in a handcart.

Anyway, I want the dream to be true and I felt empowered when I woke this morning!

[Bowlofbabelfish]

They aren’t boycotting because they need the backing of their professional bodies to do so without career damage.

There are many female atheletes who are worried about this.

[OhHolyJesus]

How can we help them? I know nothing about any of this but I want to show support. We should lobby the professional bodies?

[reallyanotherone]

Because as we saw with the recent cycling case athletes aren’t employees, have no union etc.

Funding can be withdrawn at any point for any reason. You are competing at the whim of your governing body, they can stop selecting you for any reason.

So any action like that may well end their career immediately. No money, no international selection, no sponsorship.

Sport can treat athletes like utter shit- see the sexual abuse in USA gymnastics.

No one says anything out of fear.

[Babdoc]

Also, as soon as one country starts winning women’s events by cheating and using male competitors, all the others will have to follow suit or never win again.
Any female athletes who object would probably just be deselected quicker for being troublemakers, and replaced by men.
It’s rather like the doping/steroid scandals in the days of East Germany- only cheats win.
I don’t see an easy way to stop it, other than a public outcry or ALL female athletes refusing to compete in a major tournament such as the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Sport can treat athletes like utter shit- see the sexual abuse in USA gymnastics.

Also see: coordinated doping of Eastern European atheletes in the 80/90s with ongoing damage to their health (thanks to *r0wantrees for alerting me to this paper.)

clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/clinchem/43/7/1262.full.pdf

Bowl’s prediction for the future: a similar scandal where countries develop a program of picking athletes with various conditions that lead to hyperandrogenism and then putting them on compulsory hormone lowering regimes a year or so before competition, wrecking their health long term but in the short term leading to increased athletic ability that no woman could achieve without doping.

Unlesbthe IAAF sort this out, we will see podiums consisting solely of born men, and altheleted with medical conditions that give them an unfair advantage and whose long term health is ruined.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

X post with babdoc!

[WH1SPERS]

Exactly what reallyanotherone said.

Athletes have to sign up to a code of conduct, which includes abiding by all policies and not criticising their governing body or another athlete.

So yes, it will end their career if they speak out. That’s why only ‘retired’ athletes can do so.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Also, as soon as one country starts winning women’s events by cheating and using male competitors, all the others will have to follow suit or never win again.

I think there may be a window of sanity there, particularly if a smaller nation puts up TW first. I noticed in the coverage when Laurel Hubbard looked set to win in the Commonwealth games, that NZ commentators tended to be supportive while those of other nations were more inclined to scepticism. Hubbard's injury may well have been genuine but conveniently avoided raising the profile of the issue.

[Homestar]

I understand why athletes won’t boycott events.

Would boycotting medal ceremonies work? Simply don’t show up to get your medal if you’re expected to share the podium with a cheater. I think that would be a pretty strong statement and would require less co-ordination than a boycott of events.

[ScipioAfricanus]

I think audiences and the public need to lead the way. The individual athletes can’t risk their entire career being labelled transphobic etc.

This could be not clapping or banners etc.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

The audience could indeed do something. Standing and turning away from the podium for example.

I think 2020 is going to be an interesting one.

[WH1SPERS]

Althoetes can’t do anything in defiance of their governing body. Including not standing on a podium , that would be seen as criticising another athlete which is forbidden.

Besides, why shouldnt they not get their moment of glory on the podium, they have worked for years for it?

[WH1SPERS]

Sorry for double negative there

[OhHolyJesus]

This is interesting. Maybe it's an audience-led thing as I didn't realise athletes effectively sign up to be silenced in order to compete. What a sacrifice they make, in so many areas of their lives to do the one thing they love.

I saw Mike Pence speak somewhere, I forget where, and he spoke about Trump and his pause for applause was met with a stony silence and it spoke volumes about how DT is viewed. Maybe that's the response here, that men winning in women's sport is protested at the awards ceremony.

Hopefully it won't come to that. Even McKinnon lost to women before he finally won his medal. Hoping for common sense to prevail 🤞🏻

[andyoldlabour]

"Even McKinnon lost to women before he finally won his medal."

They only lost because they had been track cycling for a mere 15 months, which is nowhere near long enough to learn basic bike control or build up the relevant muscles.
They were losing on the road, particularly on hilly courses because they were a six feet tall fourteen stone lardyarse,
McKinnon was only fitted for a track bike a few months before winning the championship.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

McKinnon is also entering the sprint disciplines I think? These rely on raw power a lot. They will have a huge advantage for far less outlay in terms of control, endurance etc

(Not dissing any sprint cyclists, I don’t mean there is no skill involved, I mean for a male to compete against women in a discipline that is based on explosive power is a sure fire win for them.)

[OhHolyJesus]

Yes, sorry, I mean Mckinnon lost to women before she went on to win. I don't see how having TW competing in the women's category won't decimate women's sport but I understand why female athletes aren't boycotting.

[WH1SPERS]

......I didn't realise athletes effectively sign up to be silenced in order to compete. What a sacrifice they make, in so many areas of their lives to do the one thing they love

There is a long and detailed contract that has to be signed as soon as they are on the performance pathway for their sport as children. The contract also covers parents too, so they can’t speak out.

[AornisHades]

Does that mean Andy and Judy Murray would be in trouble if they happened to agree with Martina?

[reallyanotherone]

Does that mean Andy and Judy Murray would be in trouble if they happened to agree with Martina?

Slightly different. Tennis is a pro sport with a pro circuit. If you win you get (big) prize money. Other money comes from sponsorship etc.

GB selection for tennis players is secondary to their pro games. Andy was obviously v. successful on the pro circuit so selection for the olympics was a given.

Andy and Judy would probably need to weigh up whether speaking out was worth the risk of possibly losing sponsors. But no, they wouldn’t have the worry about not being selected for major tournaments etc.

[MillytantForceit]

The IOC are looking more and more like a bunch of disco-dads in their best platforms trying to be down with the kids.

Squash again rejected in favour of breakdancing, and there's going to be surfing in Paris 2024, possibly on the Canal St Martin.

[AornisHades]

Thanks for the explanation really

[EdtheBear]

I guess the other thing with Andy Murray is he has just announced retirement.

But we need more retired sports men and women to speak out.