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Help me explain to DH

(73 Posts)
comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:11:39

DH insists that self ID is not a problem because it will still require official paperwork and nobody will be able to just go into a changing room or be admitted to a hospital ward based on a verbal statement.
He insists that any and all reports of this happening are sensationalist reporting.
Please can anyone direct me to straightforward evidence?
I have talked to him about Karen White, showed him the Telegraph article. He still insists that self id requires paperwork.

SignMeUp Fri 11-Jan-19 04:21:49

Would you mind telling/asking your gaslighting hubby to provide evidence that you are wrong?

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 11-Jan-19 04:32:21

He still insists that self id requires paperwork.

Well he's wrong, isn't he? Ask him what it will take for him to approach this with an open mind.....

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:36:46

Honestly, it would be easier if I could show him evidence.
I know...

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:37:49

Sorry that sounds pathetic but I am tired of arguing.

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:39:20

Also have dc who tell me I am transphobic if I raise the subject at all. I feel ganged up on.

Justagirlwholovesaboy Fri 11-Jan-19 04:40:12

As someone who agrees with your husband, why do to believe this?

HappyPunky Fri 11-Jan-19 04:41:11

If you split up and he joins tinder will he be happy dating transwomen?

Do you have a daughter? Is it ok with him if she shares a tent with a trans girl on guide camp? No paperwork but that's the advice.

Justagirlwholovesaboy Fri 11-Jan-19 04:43:12

If it’s honest then why a problem?

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 04:45:41

Maybe he's been confused (understandable) about the difference between self-id to get a new birth certificate and self id for all other purposes? the first would require paperwork, but leads to the 'all other purposes' bit just getting a free pass. It's complicated isn't it

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 11-Jan-19 04:46:08

Maybe agree to disagree - doing all the emotional and mental work for someone who hasn't an open mind is exhausting and on a hiding to nothing. I imagine he's not going to hear it from you so let him hear it from others when he's ready - if he ever will be.

Personally, I'd be evaluating the relationship and my needs in it and whether they are being met, rather than trying to persuade someone who hasn't asked for input - that's a sure way to insanity in the long run. There's a thread somewhere called break it down for me if you still want to walk that path....

To have a partner show the level of disrespect he is, for a topic that's obviously important to you, is concerning.

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:46:25

He is only disagreeing about whether official paperwork is necessary for self id. Otherwise not in agreement with self id, just the process.
Sorry I seem to be just as incapable of explaining on here as I am in conversation.

Justagirlwholovesaboy Fri 11-Jan-19 04:47:15

People who are as they as they were born to be, they love who they should. I believe they should be happy regardless of any factors

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 04:47:56

sorry - should have checked that - the existence of the self id for the GRA purposes opens the door to anyone. the birth cert is basically meaningless (when was the last time you showed yours? etc) but the fact that someone could get a birth cert on the basis of self id means that anyone who does self-id could have one. It IS complicated isn't it? Maybe I should go back to my desk.

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:52:35

The question we are debating is whether the law intends that anyone who self ids still needs to fill in an official piece of paper somewhere or if anyone can just arrive in a gym, hospital etc and state verbally that they self id as a particular gender and that is sufficient to be accepted.
The discussion started due to the article about hospital wards in the Telegraph.

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 04:53:43

Sorry comfyoldcardi - official paperwork WOULD BE necessary for a man to declare himself a woman legally if the Gender Recognition Act was changed. He's right - it sounds like he's just not aware of the impact that would have.

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 04:54:36

Oh right no he's wrong it wouldn't be. Shit. I AM going back to my desk very sorry haven't helped at all

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:55:11

Nhs paperwork has all been changed from sex to gender. So I guess anyone can tick whichever box they like. My question is whether that is all that is necessary to determine if someone is admitted to a particular ward.

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 04:56:16

Please dont apologise. It is really confusing. That is why I am struggling.

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 04:57:35

depends on the admin/triage staff i think - i've heard really different advice and stories from different places - some apply the Equality Act properly (i.e. sex-based exemptions) and others seem to just take their word for it. I think the massive problem is in the Equality Act not thte Gender Recognition Act

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 05:00:01

but you definitely could get him to do his own research!! it's a serious legal minefield and in truth nobody really knows the rules - it all remains to be tested in courts. So far, it's like a game of British Bulldog

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 11-Jan-19 05:00:51

MYTH: Legal sex change is difficult and invasive in the UK

REALITY: The UK Gender Recognition Act (2004) is one of the most liberal in the world, requiring neither surgery or drugs to legally change the sex written on a birth certificate. About a third of the countries in the world allow people to change their legal sex status and of those the vast majority require transgender people to have genital surgery, including many European countries and most US states. Sources: GOV.UK and Transgender Law Center.

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 11-Jan-19 05:01:58

helpful site

comfyoldcardi Fri 11-Jan-19 05:03:05

He is really not a bad person. He likes rules and things to be done correctly and cannot believe that anyone can self id without due process and procedure.
He is in his 60s and quite conventional, kind hearted but a bit old fashioned.

LArgeOnes Fri 11-Jan-19 05:03:44

But the problem we're really having is with the interpretation of the Equality Act - which many people interpret to mean that as soon as a person intends to change their gender they should be treated as their intended gender for all purposes other than where it can be shown to be a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim. The GRA provides the means to bulldoze through that but it's not happened yet and yet here we are - bulldozed through.

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