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John CARPAY: "16 Vancouver women facing human rights complaints for refusing to wax transgender woman’s male genitalia"

(66 Posts)
R0wantrees Tue 06-Nov-18 19:24:40

"The anonymous individual "JY" has filed 16 separate complaints with the Human Rights Tribunal after being refused a Brazilian wax from businesses that only service women
“JY” publicly identifies as a woman, but still has all the male parts. In recent months, JY approached 16 Vancouver-area female estheticians who only serve women, requesting a “Brazilian” bikini wax on his groin area.

If paying homage to political correctness, one would say that these 16 estheticians will only remove pubic hair from “a woman without a penis.”

Apart from the legitimate choice of a female esthetician to serve only women, there are practical considerations that lead estheticians to provide some services and not all services.

The procedure for providing a man with a “Manzilian” is quite different, using a different kind of wax and a different technique.

Claimant could make $35,000 off the human rights complaints
In spite of the fact that JY is able to obtain a Manzilian in Vancouver, JY has filed 16 complaints against these women at the BC Human Rights Tribunal, claiming discrimination on the basis of “gender identity.”

The Justice Centre has been connected with only two of the 16 women, and has provided legal representation to both, without charge.

One of them, Shelah Poyer, is a single mom who works out of her home. JY was willing to withdraw his complaint in exchange for $2,500.

If JY is demanding similar sums from the other 14 women, he stands to receive as much as $35,000 for dropping his human rights complaints.

Lawyers afraid to represent those facing transgender identity discrimination complaints
For the women without legal representation, the temptation to settle is very strong.

Fighting JY’s discrimination complaint all the way through to a hearing would cost each esthetician $20,000 or $30,000 or more.

Further, those facing a complaint of “gender identity” discrimination may find it extremely difficult to obtain legal representation.

One of the women represented by the Justice Centre had approached, and had been turned down by 26 different lawyers and law firms. All of which cited lack of expertise in human rights proceedings, or fear of offending the transgender lobby, or both." (continues)

VickyEadie Tue 06-Nov-18 19:29:52

Is this the same complainant who was found to have posted some extremely scary stuff about tampons and 10 year old girls? If so, I thought they'd withdrawn the suits after this was discovered.

pombear Tue 06-Nov-18 19:38:24

Just saw this too ROwan

For any wobblers on the fence of 'be kind, be nice'.

Do you, or do you have friends who work in the beauty industry?

Do you, or they, choose to provide services to women only, for whatever reason you or they choose to?

If the UK moves closer towards the Canadian model, any person with a penis who declares they are a woman can demand they should be treated as a woman.

So you, or your friends, who may choose not to deal with penises in their waxing room, or any other treatment, could risk being seen as 'transphobic' and a court case brought against them for not waxing the scrotum of these 'women'.

I sat in my hairdresser's salon the other day, and another client asked her whether she took bookings in her spa for massages etc for men.

My hairdresser friend said 'only from client's partners and husbands who I know, because, you know, I have to be careful'.

Trans rights activists trample over my friend's rights to safeguard herself, protect herself in her place of business.

Just because a person with a penis identifies themselves as 'woman' doesn't reduce that risk that she's trying to protect herself from.

This is the world we're at risk from sleep walking into, for the sake of being nice, and being kind.

TwistedStitch Tue 06-Nov-18 19:47:09

Trying to extort money from a single mother for refusing to touch his genitals. No different from any other abusive man but sickeningly the law is pandering to this one.

heresyandwitchcraft Tue 06-Nov-18 19:55:26

That article just continues with nightmarishness. Because the Tribunal won't release the name of this vexatious complainant or communicate that there is free legal representation on offer, most of these women aren't even given the opportunity to get help!

As many as 14 women are each facing a human rights complaint, isolated and alone, not able to follow what should be public legal proceedings filed by the same individual, JY.

Further, the Tribunal has thus far refused to inform these 14 women that they can obtain legal representation from the Justice Centre without charge.

Without legal representation, it is likely that most or all of these 14 women are going to pay settlement money to JY, to escape the very stressful tribunal process.

FekkoThePenguin Tue 06-Nov-18 19:57:41

I'd wax it. 😈

KatVonGulag Tue 06-Nov-18 20:11:08

fekko grin

Knicknackpaddyflak Tue 06-Nov-18 21:30:47

And if any of them had buckled and tried it, he then would have sued them for doing a wrong procedure with the wrong kit.

Game set and match to the person with the penis.

A friend is a holistic therapist and says she and many other therapists are watching this all unfold with dread because they work out of their homes and only accept women clients. They're looking potentially at losing the right to do so.

ThePrincipal Tue 06-Nov-18 21:35:35

So no one listens when a woman says ‘no’?

Women not legally allowed to set their own personal boundaries anymore?

How has Canada come to this?

Does Justin Trudeau care?

GCAcademic Tue 06-Nov-18 21:55:56

How is it a human right to have your balls waxed, ffs? What a disgusting bastard, extorting money from struggling women. And Justin Trudeau is no better. He is the reason why I regard with suspicion any man who claims to be a feminist. Male "feminists" are invariably wolves in sheep's clothing.

ThePrincipal Tue 06-Nov-18 22:00:18

Shame on you Justin Trudeau.

R0wantrees Thu 08-Nov-18 12:15:57


happydappy2 Thu 08-Nov-18 16:01:09

This will be interesting-bearing in mind this person can go to other establishments that offer 'back sack & crack' waxing, these women SHOULD be well within their rights to turn down business they don't feel comfortable doing. It is not because the individual in trans that they are rejecting the job, it is what they are being asked to do. I hope any judge can appreciate that its a different skill set involved. Sadly we need more cases like this (to be ruled in womens favour) so we know how the law stands.

MrsTerryPratcett Thu 08-Nov-18 18:21:05

I just looked for articles. It may be my Googling but only right wing publications in Canada, and some international media, are covering this. Isn't it news to centre and left publications? Isn't it worth looking at?

Melanippe Thu 08-Nov-18 18:23:30

MrsTP, no I don't think they would be interested, sadly.

R0wantrees Thu 08-Nov-18 18:33:07

It may be my Googling but only right wing publications in Canada, and some international media, are covering this. Isn't it news to centre and left publications? Isn't it worth looking at?

There was an interesting discussion here in recent months about a close friend or relative who struggled to accept what she had been told about the threats to women's rights by transactivists because of the lack of coverage on the BBC and Guardian.
I'm sorry that I can't remember the thread as it was an important one.

In the US, radical lesbian groups have found that they can only have coverage in right wing media sources.

Its the same issue in all three countries

Verify2Terrify Thu 08-Nov-18 22:29:44

Anyone read this?

This is just appalling.

SlowlyShrinking Thu 08-Nov-18 23:48:29

Just read it Verify another one who definitely doesn’t “just want to pee”

SlowlyShrinking Thu 08-Nov-18 23:50:52

I keep thinking nothing else can shock me, but it just gets worse and worse

Loouise Thu 15-Nov-18 00:12:24

I would like to emphasise that JY HAS BEEN A CREEP SINCE 2012/2013 targeting young girls and women online. I made a thread about it on Twitter if you're interested
And I should be in touch with the lawyers of the woman who's talked about in this article tomorrow.

everybodypuuuuulllll Thu 15-Nov-18 00:32:17

Previous thread naming this individual taken down by MN. Looks like we have to call him JY to discuss him here.

This is the deleted thread message from MN:

Thanks to all who contributed, but we've had a number of reports about this thread and the legal issues that it raises

As far as we can see, other online publications (including the Spectator in the UK) are respecting the Canadian court's request to refer to the person concerned as JY. As it's not feasible to edit so much of the thread, we've taken it down.

Damn, I was meaning to save a copy of that thread, I didn't get round to it.

FloralBunting Thu 15-Nov-18 00:40:43

Yes, let's hope that when this person is allowed to be fully revealed in all their abhorrence, MN will be first in the queue to showcase this person's base and appalling behaviour towards women and girls.

AngryAttackKittens Thu 15-Nov-18 00:42:11

Hi Louise, thank you so much for that thread, and for trying to get in touch with the woman who's being sued by this piss-taking predator. Is there any way anyone can think of to get in touch with the rest of the women's he gone after too? Because they need help, and the case against him would be much stronger with multiple women countersuing or otherwise pushing back.

PositivelyPERF Thu 15-Nov-18 00:45:32

I’m sure there’s nothing in Mumsnet rules to state that we can’t name this creep in private messages.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman Thu 15-Nov-18 00:45:49

Were I “JY”, I’d be concerned about presenting my naked genitals to a pissed-off woman with a bowl of hot wax.

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 00:49:28

Surely the issue is she doesnt do balls? She's not qualified to do balls, it doesn't matter whether he calls them female, she's still not qualified and cannot be forced to go near his bollox.
This fucking shocking that this shite organisation has every running scared of recrimination and human rights abuses.

How much more abusive can you get than forcing women to handle your male dick and bollox

AngryAttackKittens Thu 15-Nov-18 00:53:46

YY, Dance. Presumably he's relying on his ability to scare the shit out of them in person.

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 01:41:23

MN respecting Canadian courts wishes to refer to him as JY same as other online publications.

But I do hope all these women can club together and counter sue for their suffering the intimidation and forcing to do this. They are not qualified so they cannot do it.
I can't believe this is real, but I know it is
Cognitive dissonance, much! FFS

Marcipex Thu 15-Nov-18 02:07:25

I'm appalled.

Loouise Thu 15-Nov-18 10:05:13

I believe JY's aim was NEVER to actually get a wax, just to prey on vulnerable women and make some money out of it.
Rest assured that I will do EVERYTHING possible to make sure JY gets what JY deserves. International law is a MESS to navigate but I am making it my mission to do everything in my power.

AngryAttackKittens Thu 15-Nov-18 10:16:06


AngryAttackKittens Thu 15-Nov-18 10:16:30

And I agree with you, the whole thing stinks of scam.

deepwatersolo Thu 15-Nov-18 10:29:06

Shelah Poyer luckily did not pay. It is outrageous that the Men's Rights Trubunal Human Right's Tribunal will not tell the Justice Center how to contact the other women.

Apparently, in Sheila's case bringing up JV's online history of tampon insertion phantasies with 11 year olds was enough for JV to withdraw the complaint.

FekkoThePenguin Thu 15-Nov-18 10:48:04

Some people really do have brass, er, necks? No shame. No filter.

misscockerspaniel Thu 15-Nov-18 11:39:05

It does sound like a scam. Mind you, it would have only taken one GC woman and a tub of hot wax to deal effectively with the scumbag in question.

FekkoThePenguin Thu 15-Nov-18 16:46:21

If the other things I've seen on Twitter were real about this one then this is the least of our worries.

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 16:50:04

Yes bloody wax those bollox, give him what he wants!!!! Not qualified, just use the wax you have and rip those buggers off.

everybodypuuuuulllll Thu 15-Nov-18 17:12:29

It's not just a scam. He's getting off on it. He deliberately targets women working on their own, out of their flats. He wants the encounter and he's punishing them if he doesn't get it.

This person has also been called out by teenage girls for joining a beauty group online, and persistently engaging them in talk about periods, particularly what he should do if he's in a changing room and a 10-12 year old asks for help with her tampon - eg should he give advice on inserting it. He asked variations of that several times. Pretending he gets periods and talking to them about it.

All this time, his profile has an image of on it that looks obviously male. But many of the girls were afraid to challenge him because he said he was trans.

In my day, if someone who looked like a man asked me and my teenage friends to talk about periods with him, I'd have told a grown up a man was hassling us. But many of these kids have been groomed into thinking they have to be nice to trans people, no matter what they look like, and so were patiently explaining to him about periods. He was inviting them to contact him by private message.

This is grooming and pedophilia, people. And it's happening in plain sight.

What are we doing about it? What are the Canadian authorities doing about it?

Oh and one more thing. In his profile pic, he's wearing google glasses (that record what you see). They're going to be fun in changing rooms.

Are all the handmaidens going to continue using changing rooms once they find themselves starring in voyeur porn? Oh sorry, I forgot. This never happens.

FekkoThePenguin Thu 15-Nov-18 17:15:34

Canada seems, sigh, odd about addressing these things.

everybodypuuuuulllll Thu 15-Nov-18 17:17:07

Shriek that might be what he's after. Some people pay to be hurt.

FekkoThePenguin Thu 15-Nov-18 17:24:23

I think it would so some damage. All the hot wax, and ripping and tearing 😱

QuietContraryMary Thu 15-Nov-18 18:13:28

"MN respecting Canadian courts wishes to refer to him as JY same as other online publications."

Not courts. Tribunal.

Or kangaroo court if you must.

Features of the Canada kangaroo courts:

* no fees
* no legal costs
* anonymity to harass women
* hence no risks for ball waxer paedophiles

Note that the Harper government repealed s13 (inciting hatred) of the Human Rights Act in 2013, while the current ball waxing provisions were introduced by Trudeau in 2016 as well as by the BC provincial government and others in 2016, and have already been used to harass Lindsay Shepherd.

FromEden Thu 15-Nov-18 18:14:34

I read yesterday that doctors in Canada have been coercing native women into being sterilised after giving birth by denying them access to their newborns until they agree. They are not as "progressive" as they like to portray themselves. Not when it comes to women's and native rights anyway.

Nothisispatrick Thu 15-Nov-18 18:17:15

Sorry if I’m being dense but how is getting your pubes waxed off a human right?

sackrifice Thu 15-Nov-18 18:23:42

I would like to emphasise that JY HAS BEEN A CREEP SINCE 2012/2013 targeting young girls and women online.

Bloody hell Loouise, what a vile creep. Hope you are ok. flowers

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 18:47:09

Really!!! Eden !!? I am running out of expletives

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 19:08:47

Holding onto newborns until their DM agree to sterilisation!!!!

We really haven't come very far have we.
Why are so many still stuck in this horrendous mode of operating and why aren't they bloody locked up for it???

FromEden Thu 15-Nov-18 19:21:26

here is the article I read. Shocking

AspieAndProud Thu 15-Nov-18 19:30:26

Sorry if I’m being dense but how is getting your pubes waxed off a human right?’

A hundred years ago young men fought and died in the trenches for the right to a smooth and shiny scrotum.

Did they die in vain?

TwistedStitch Thu 15-Nov-18 19:35:45

Another screenshot of disturbing messages has come to light. Am I allowed to share it as it shows his profile picture?

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 19:36:09

Why do they have to be referred to as 'indigenous' all the time. Women who were coerced into sterilisation. Didn't this happen in Ireland too?

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 19:38:15

Yeah, his ball-sack wouldn't be so shiny if one of those unqualified women he approached had succumbed to his pressure/coercion. They acted professionally.

They must surely know about each other now?

FekkoThePenguin Thu 15-Nov-18 19:40:15

Refuse - damages for hurty feelings.
Tear out the hair - damages for hurty knackers.

Win-win innit?

ChiaraRimini Thu 15-Nov-18 20:49:26

everybody is right. This person has persistently questioned teenage girls on social media about what to do if a young girl asked for help inserting a tampon in a public toilet. This is clearly a sick perverted fantasy. No young girl is going to approach a stranger in such circumstances. The person concerned has a menstruation fetish and are involving teenage girls online in it by deception.

Shriek Thu 15-Nov-18 20:52:11

He has to be charged with paedophilia fetishes perying on young girls...why the fuck wouldnt he be?

KinCat Fri 16-Nov-18 01:20:51

TwistedStitch you could edit out profile picture, name etc?

StrangeLookingParasite Fri 16-Nov-18 07:54:10

Just a brief note to Loouise, Gendertrender is not "transphobic", it mrerely reports and makes known all the incidents the TRA's would like to keep hidden.

anniehm Fri 16-Nov-18 08:15:36

In this city we have single sex salons and mixed sex - plenty of options for a trans person to be waxed by the gender of their choice. Some people just what to make trouble. The lady that I see has clients of either biological sex and has a trans lady (which she finds funny but is good for the bottom line as hormones don't seem to be keeping that male hair in check!). I don't really get the single sex salon thing but if it's legal then yes they can say no

Spryfield Fri 16-Nov-18 15:42:33

I don't know about the UK, but in Canada the term "Indigenous" refers to Native people. (The term "aboriginal" has fallen out of favour.)

In Canada, Indigenous women experience oppression in orders of magnitude far beyond what white women go through. They live with a legacy of absolute cultural genocide.

Prior generations of Indigenous children were taken from their homes and families by the Canadian government, and dropped far away in residential schools. There they were starved and beaten, to "educate the Indian out of them". This practise only ended a few decades ago. (Google Chanie Wenjack if you want to read just one heartbreaking story.) Lots of children died and were abused.

Residential schools destroyed families, destroyed culture and language, and left trauma that continues to have lasting effects on subsequent generations. Whether isolated on reserves, or in urban centres, there are struggles with poverty and addiction and racism. Many reserves don't have adequate housing, or clean drinking water. The living conditions are not like the rest of Canada.

There are thousands of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW). (Google Highway of Tears or Robert Pickton if you want to get a sense of how little cops gave a shit about indigenous women.)

So without belabouring the point too much, it IS important to name this as a problem affecting indigenous women. All women (especially poor ones) can experience paternalism in health care. But indigenous women in Canada do face their own special kind of hell, that isn't just because they are women, but because they're Indigenous.

MrsTerryPratcett Fri 16-Nov-18 15:52:39

They are also massively over represented in corrections, MH, addiction and shelters. All the places where 'this never happens'.

DonDrapersOldFashioned Fri 16-Nov-18 15:57:16

It is mind boggling that this stuff continues

Spryfield Fri 16-Nov-18 16:26:12

There is a facebook group called Rant Room, with screen shots and discussion about JY being pervy in makeup groups. They labelled JY a predator long before this waxing story. Lots of comments from young women who said they didn't know how to speak up about it, because they didn't want to be seen as transphobic. The grooming implications made me shudder.

JY engaged in targetted abuse and harassment of young women and girls.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the Human Rights Commission right now. They tend to hand-pick their cases; they wanted this ti be a test case for a reason. I can totally see them still going forward on principle.

There was a case from 1999, where an individual pursued a Human Rights complaint against a Vancouver Lesbian Centre. The transgender individual volunteered there and thoroughly violated boundaries. Stayed there all day every day, and got their government cheques sent to the centre, and basically started living there and calling themselves the librarian. Got kicked out, and decided to go to the Comission to basically sue the VLC for discriminating because they were transgender.

And they won.

Case in all its astounding detail:

TLDR version / news story:

They gave this boundary-violator a $3000 award. In 1999. They may well do the same for JY.

FromEden Fri 16-Nov-18 16:38:41

On the topic of the struggles indigenous people in Canada, particularly women face, I recently listened to a couple of podcasts that were very enlightening. They tell the story of residential schools and forced adoptions and how they have affected whole families through generations and also the many missing and murdered indigenous women of Canada, focussing on two particular cases.

The podcast is calling Missing and Murdered and the 2 series are Finding Cleo and Who Killed Alberta Williams. Harrowing stuff but important to be heard I think

FromEden Fri 16-Nov-18 16:40:27

finding Cleo

Who Killed Alberta Williams

MrsTerryPratcett Fri 16-Nov-18 17:14:55

Thanks @FromEden

Just a note on I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the Human Rights Commission right now. BC doesn't have a commission, just a tribunal. Only province not to have one. They are on the way to one now but the thing is BC didn't give enough of a crap to have one before. If you read the document on their stated priorities for the proposed commission, well you can guess...

Shriek Fri 16-Nov-18 17:26:19

Thank @Spryfield I really appreciate the effort and info

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