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Dangerous sex offender transferred to women's prison, Peterborough

(138 Posts)
doedoe90303811 Tue 18-Sep-18 07:00:31

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7281372/transsexual-paedophile-moved-womens-prison/

Shaun Pudwell 'posed as a girl' to try to rape girls of 12 and 13 years old.
www.thefreelibrary.com/Cyber+creep+facing+prison%3B+He+posed+as+a+girl.-a0169721830
Now Shaun is legally recognised as a girl, under the name of Michelle Lewin, and has a gender recognition certificate. This is a mechanism designed to keep secret, with criminal penalties, the fact Michelle has male biology.

As Michelle has a GRC Michelle has a right to be in women's prison. That is the system TRAs created and lobbied for.

Michelle is under an indefinite sentence, which means that it's deemed that Michelle is a very dangerous sex offender for whom normal punishment rules don't apply, it's more important to protect the public from Michelle.

However this protection is not apparently extended to the women & girls (it's a female YOI) in HMP Peterborough having to share with Michelle.

AceAcer Tue 18-Sep-18 07:20:38

Sorry but what are the criminal penalties of the GRC? I'm not sure I understand your sentence there. Does it mean that it is a criminal act to suggest this person is male?

ZuttZeVootEeVro Tue 18-Sep-18 07:22:41

A convicted paedophile was issued with a GRC?

I hope this makes women and girls realise that women and girls safety plays no part in the GRC process.

I wonder why they changed their surname as well as their first name?

OrchidInTheSun Tue 18-Sep-18 07:27:47

See this thread Ace "It is illegal to ask to see a GRC"http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3219194-It-is-illegal-to-ask-to-see-a-GRC

Floisme Tue 18-Sep-18 07:28:25

I've run out of things to say.

According to that article, there are 25 transgender prisoners in women’s jails.

25. How many do we know about?

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 07:28:39

So, everyone who said that the line between who should and who shouldn't be allowed into women's spaces should be the possession of a GRC, how well do you think that's working out?

OrchidInTheSun Tue 18-Sep-18 07:29:09

Funny how many sex offenders change their first name and their surname when they transition. Wonder what that's about hmm

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 18-Sep-18 07:32:04

What robust checks were made?

angry

Those poor poor women.

KatVonGulag Tue 18-Sep-18 07:32:21

Okay according to trans ideology this is an actual woman.
Of the very tiny amount of biological female sex offenders, how many are guilty of independently sexually assaulting children of the same sex? Most cases where this has happened seem to involve a man too.

Yet it seems transwomen have a (proportionally) much higher offending rating in this area, isn't it true that it's actually at the same rate as men? Hmmm odd that. Thought the lady brain would have kicked in.

I can't feel sympathy for this individual. I feel sympathy with "michelles" victims. The prison services needs to find a third way.

ZuttZeVootEeVro Tue 18-Sep-18 07:32:43

I think we need to know who is making the decision to issue GRC to sex offenders and the exact criteria used.

GulagMilkMonitor Tue 18-Sep-18 07:34:25

Those poor women.

I am very tempted to protest outside.

Ereshkigal Tue 18-Sep-18 08:09:42

Funny how many sex offenders change their first name and their surname when they transition. Wonder what that's about

Isn't it?

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 08:11:46

Supposedly there's a panel that decides. What do they ask, "can you pay the fee?"

OrchidInTheSun Tue 18-Sep-18 08:13:43

A panel where Jay Thingy, founder of Gendered Intelligence, is a member. Gendered Intelligence is an organisation that actively encourages children to identify as trans

glassandahalf Tue 18-Sep-18 08:17:58

I wonder why they changed their surname as well as their first name.

It seems Michelle changed their surname when they married Mark Lewin in prison in 2014. Mark Lewin has himself been in prison several times, dating back to 2008, for possessing and creating indecent images of children, as well as upskirting offences.

The UK Database for crimes against kids - Mark Lewin

Back in 2008 Mark Lewin was jailed for 100 weeks after admitting two offences of voyeurism for the purposes of sexual gratification and six of possessing indecent images of youngsters.

Officers found almost 1,400 images on his laptop and phone, depicting the sexual abuse of young females by adult males.

Some of the photographs were of toddlers aged less than two years old, Guildford Crown Court heard.

Defending Mark Lewin in 2011, Rupert Hallowes said that ultimately little harm had been caused by his client's actions.

"The conduct is the behaviour of a low-level sex pest, if I can put it that way," Mr Hallowes said.

Just a low-level sex pest. Well, that's okay then.

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 08:19:28

Can we go and protest outside Peterborough prison? If this case doesn’t scream repeal the GRA I don’t know what does. If Amnesty International has any fucking moral compass whatsoever they would be all over the fact that the U.K. is abusing the human rights of incarcerated women!

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 08:20:35

Rupert Hallowes is a Grade A piece of shit!

GulagMilkMonitor Tue 18-Sep-18 08:21:45

Can we go and protest outside Peterborough prison?

I’m up for it.

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 08:21:50

A "low level sex pest" with a sexual interest in toddlers. Isn't it lovely how seriously our legal system takes safeguarding?

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 08:23:23

I’m up for it

Hopefully one of the groups will organise? This really is enough.

LurkingWaspi Tue 18-Sep-18 08:23:54

www.justice.gov.uk/contacts/prison-finder/peterborough

Category B prison apparently, privately run. Mother and baby unit ...angry

Not much point in involving the local Labour MP Fiona Onasanya
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-labour-mp-appears-court-12979550

JuneOsbourne Tue 18-Sep-18 08:25:59

Not just poor women. HMP Peterborough has a 12 place mother and baby unit according to the MoJ.

GulagMilkMonitor Tue 18-Sep-18 08:27:35

Maybe we need a thread for a protest?

HotRocker Tue 18-Sep-18 08:30:27

If this incarcerated paedophile can go through the current gatekeeping system and still get a GRC, it’s not a good foreshadowing for what will happen under self ID.

ZuttZeVootEeVro Tue 18-Sep-18 08:34:15

Supposedly there's a panel that decides. What do they ask, "can you pay the fee?"

I think it is just a admin process. A sex offenders just had to demonstrate that they have used a female sounding name for a given amount of time and pay a fee.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-10-06/105995/

Looks like very few applicants are refused.

StopPOP Tue 18-Sep-18 08:36:01

This is fucking outrageous

LangCleg Tue 18-Sep-18 08:36:37

A convicted paedophile was issued with a GRC?

And, as I understand it, while they were serving their sentence and from inside prison.

I FUCKING HATE THE WORLD.

Tellin Tue 18-Sep-18 08:36:38

The argument I've seen on the GRA thread is that even if you have a GRC, you can still be lawfully discriminated against (ie excluded from women's spaces) on the grounds of gender reassignment.

Seems not to be the case in practice and this person has been legally treated as a woman, despite clear and obvious reasons to exclude them from the female estate.

It's just misogyny, where the identity needs of men are prioritised above the safety of women and safety.

LurkingWaspi Tue 18-Sep-18 08:36:52

Editor of the local paper ...anyone tweet?
I'll email
Peterborough Telegraph

mark.edwards@peterboroughtoday.co.uk
Twitter: @ptmarkedwards

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 08:37:11

Today in "what could possibly go wrong?" and "who ever could have predicted this?"

Tellin Tue 18-Sep-18 08:38:49

Along with 'you've got nothing to worry about' and 'it never happens'

Tellin Tue 18-Sep-18 08:44:17

What angers me the most here is that no one cares about how women feel being around ML. It's not even about whether actual sexual offences are committed but the environment of fear these women now have to live in.

A sex offender with a penis given free range in a women's prison isn't really any different to providing a convicted murderer with a knife and letting them walk around the prison with it. And that's before you think about how many women in prison have been victims of sexual violence and are likely to feel particularly vulnerable around a rapist.

CurbsideProphet Tue 18-Sep-18 08:44:44

This is a new and even more terrifying version of Gilead.

LurkingWaspi Tue 18-Sep-18 08:48:55

I've emailed the editor of the local paper, and linked to this thread and also the Karen White thread and JK in Spectator.

Floisme Tue 18-Sep-18 08:51:58

I’d like to see WPUK (or sister org) holding their next meeting in Peterborough and inviting the governor, MP and local press.

Aeroflotgirl Tue 18-Sep-18 09:03:42

I have no words, they really hate women don't they! Which idiot thought this is a good idea! Women's safety at the bottom as usually, men using their priviledge and power over women, to get what they want. How many women will be hurt or abused in prison, for somebody to take action.

Annandale Tue 18-Sep-18 09:07:19

Brilliant idea floisme.

This seems so gobsmacking that i almost can't believe it is real. The sun is getting a lot of clicks from me as i keep going back to read it again.

As i undrstand it, when ireland moved to self id, prisons were specifically excluded in some way. At least that should be possible. But how on earth did this pass any risk assessment? What is tge risk assessment? My traffic light risk sheet fir this would have looked like a case of measles, there would have been so many red bits on it. My guess would be that tgere is simply no level of risk that would lead to the conclusion 'this person should not be in the female estate' because it is not quantitative and because rape of imprisoned women and babies is mot taken seriously. The risk of a trans prson killing themselves is a red square, and tge risk of them raping multiple women is a red square, and they cancel each other out.

hackmum Tue 18-Sep-18 09:07:57

It must be horrific for those poor women in that jail.

Do you have any idea where the Sun got that figure of 25 from? I haven't seen it before. The one figure we do know is that there are 125 trans prisoners (without GRCs), but we don't know if they're in male or female prisons.

GulagMilkMonitor Tue 18-Sep-18 09:11:11

Things we need here:
- Protests
- More press/radio
- A fund for women who are (god forbid) attacked by men in prison, so they can take legal action or access therapy
- Meetings in the town with the relevant prisons

WarmWishes Tue 18-Sep-18 09:11:58

Love the protest suggestion.

Procrastinator1 Tue 18-Sep-18 09:17:03

How exactly does Penny Mordaunt and Maria Miller think the GRC application too difficult?

OrchidInTheSun Tue 18-Sep-18 09:18:54

It's terribly invasive an expensive doncha know

Although most don't seem to bother with it but I guess it's useful if you're a nonce and want to serve your sentence around kids angry

Annandale Tue 18-Sep-18 09:19:34

Well it certainly sounds like the GRC process is not fit for purpose.

Maybe it should have some kind of external moderation by a lay panel as well as the two doctors' opinions?

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 09:20:41

Penny Mordaunt and Maria Miller find a lot of things too difficult, like defining women for example.

gendercritter Tue 18-Sep-18 09:20:56

Article in the Mail now too.

This is absolutely horrendous. How is this happening?

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 09:22:02

*Things we need here:
- Protests
- More press/radio
- A fund for women who are (god forbid) attacked by men in prison, so they can take legal action or access therapy
- Meetings in the town with the relevant prisons*

100% agree with all of this

Ereshkigal Tue 18-Sep-18 09:23:03

Or I have got a great idea Annandale, why don't we just believe whatever people say about their gender identity, not ask them any questions or have any monitoring or gatekeeping and just let them fill out a form or make a declaration in order for a male to be counted as a female for most purposes and access sex segregated spaces like female prisons! That will surely be the best thing to do!

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 09:23:59

Also this needs to be sent to the ‘paedophile watch’ groups like U.K. database

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 09:27:18

The only positives I can see in this horrorshow are that a. the media gloves seem to be well and truly off now and b. that will presumably make it harder for politicians to pretend not to know what they're endorsing. As long as we hold their feet to the fire.

Annandale Tue 18-Sep-18 09:27:51

I'm not willing to protest outside the prison. Would the women in the prisonbe entitled to legal aid for a case for something like neglect against the risk assessment panel?

NotBadConsidering Tue 18-Sep-18 09:30:19

Just when you think things can’t get any worse..

BesmirchingMotherhood Tue 18-Sep-18 09:32:51

I’ve a great idea.

Why not let people change gender whenever they like, but base our laws and segregated facilities on sex?

I could cry.

Procrastinator1 Tue 18-Sep-18 09:55:50

I think the prisons say their guidance on trans women in prisons follows from a human rights case in this country.
Does anyone know how the Irish exclude trans women from the female estate even though they have self I’d?
I did do a bit of googling but couldn’t find much.
Yes to protests, but Peterborough is a bit far. How about outside the Ministry of Justice.

Somerville Tue 18-Sep-18 10:02:01

So the checks and balances are a lie. Men who get off on raping women are allowed to claim to be one.
The women and children imprisoned there don’t have a voice to speak up about this themselves. We have to do it for them.

UpstartCrow Tue 18-Sep-18 10:05:12

''Just a small administrative change that won't affect women at all'' is shown to be a crock.

gendercritter Tue 18-Sep-18 10:14:41

The women and children imprisoned there don’t have a voice to speak up about this themselves. We have to do it for them

I've long felt that women in prison need a lot more attention and support of some sort. I'm not naive about the fact that some female prisoners are not nice people but as a population they are so vulnerable. I don't believe they are adequately cared for or helped even without there being male prisoners in the female estate. This just seems to be the last indignity they have to endure.

TheQueef Tue 18-Sep-18 10:17:40

25 current inmates in women's estates?
Surely they are over represented?

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 10:40:18

from the article:
"Michelle Lewin, born Shaun Pudwell, changed gender while in prison for a grooming underage girls"

"The paedophile married Mark Lewin, taking his name, while in HMP Elmley in 2014"
He [Mark Lewin] was later jailed in 2015 for having indecent images of kids but has since been released"

So in short the offences against girls were committed whilst he was living as a man. Gender transition took place whilst in prison. Name change first through marriage (to someone convicted of indecent images of children) and then with GRC a new identity enshrined and she is protected.

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 10:41:11

Francis Crook executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform "said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration."

source:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Claude Knights (safeguarding expert recently retired after 15 years as head of Kidscape)
on sex offenders who transition and are afforded the opportunity to change their name and hide their history as a consequence & recent case of "Christopher Noble, 32, transitioned to Christyl Knight while behind bars for keeping a stash of over 4,000 vile pictures and videos of kids as young as six months old"

“Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”
“Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

ink{https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/\www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile]]/}

Annandale Tue 18-Sep-18 10:46:37

Have started googling for expertise on female prisoners. The charity Women in Prison has zero mention of this issue, though it does mention 'gender specific services'. Considering whether to email them about their view on who women prisoners are, except that they are clearly a tiny charity - why should they get flak from me which might affect their ability to continue? Except that their specific purpose is to support women in prison. Which ones?

NormalPeople Tue 18-Sep-18 10:56:51

I haven't clicked on the link, I feel too angry.

Where was the risk assessment? Is that something that's available via a FOI request or somesuch? If there are young babies in the same building, why aren't social services and the NSPCC involved?

I've only recently begun to find my voice on this area (have NC for this thread as have posted personal details under other names). I begun to fill out the consultation paper yesterday. I stopped halfway through as I needed a break, but tbh I didn't feel empowered by filling it out, I felt despairing - that our laws don't need loosening or a status quo, they need rolling back on some issues.

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 11:02:42

The charity Women in Prison has zero mention of this issue, though it does mention 'gender specific services'

annandale The charity was mentioned last week in a tweet by TELI (Trans Equality Legal Initiave, co-founded by Jess Bradley, Tara Hewitt & Michelle Hudson etc). TELI Twitter was angered by guests on the Victoria Derbyshire Show discussing the sexual assault on female prisoners in light of White's long violent offending history against women and children.

from the thread I wrote:
"Interesting to note that as well as Press for Change, TELI tweet has signposted towards 'Women in Prisons' as an expert source along with themselves and Press for Change.

Its a long established charity:
"We support women to avoid and exit the criminal justice system and campaign for the radical changes needed to deliver support services and justice for women."

One would hope that a charity committed to would indeed be an important voice and hopefully one which would be at the forefront of advocating for those women in prisons who have been sexually attacked, 'intimidated' etc by male-born prisoners.
www.womeninprison.org.uk/about/who-we-are.php

List of Trustees some clear links to Garden Court Chambers and NUS (LSE/Goldsmiths) hmm
www.womeninprison.org.uk/staff/trustees.php

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3361150-Dr-Nicola-Williams-on-BBC2-at-10-15-Victoria-Live?pg=3&messages=100

Aeroflotgirl Tue 18-Sep-18 11:04:48

We are going to see woman's prisons full of male sex offenders and Paedophiles, either wanting an easy ride or to gain access to women.

Datun Tue 18-Sep-18 11:05:25

It's quite evident from the comments under the articles that this is confusing a lot of people.

Many people think that to be trans, you have to have had the op.

They also think that gender reassignment means the op.

Men, in particular, think that having the op makes a man less intimidating.

I'm gobsmacked that this person managed to get a GRC, given we still have gatekeeping.

On the other hand, in a way it's unsurprising, given how there is such support for eliminating the criteria.

The people that signed off on this must know they have grounds for invoking exemptions.

Why don't they?

ErrolTheDragon Tue 18-Sep-18 11:05:26

* Why not let people change gender whenever they like, but base our laws and segregated facilities on sex?
*

Abso-bloody-lutely. I would have a law to prevent actual gender discrimination, ie people can dress as they wish regardless of their sex etc. Let men be as 'feminine' as they want, let women be as 'masculine'.

But any service where segregation is needed, it should be on sex not 'gender'.

ZuttZeVootEeVro Tue 18-Sep-18 11:15:24

I'm gobsmacked that this person managed to get a GRC, given we still have gatekeeping.

Any gatekeeping is in respect to the person seeking grc. It's to ensure that is right decision for them, not the general public.

theOtherPamAyres Tue 18-Sep-18 11:44:07

There is a big difference between this convict and Stephen White - but it throws a spotlight on the absurdity of the law.

With a Gender Recognition Certificate, and a new birth certificate, this convict is now classed as "female" for legal purposes.

She is protected under the Equality Act by virtue of her sex (female). No-one can question or challenge the new legal status.

She is no longer 'transgender' and she must be treated the same as any other female. To treat her differently would be unlawful discrimination.

So much for the reassurance that sex-based protections will remain in place. It's a lie.

Repeal the Gender Recognition Act.

SophoclesTheFox Tue 18-Sep-18 12:17:47

FFS.

Yeah, let's make it easier for poor, misunderstood paedophiles to get put in jails with mother and baby units. You can always rely on a them to be fine, upstanding citizens with no ulterior motives at all, absolutely no question.

For fucking fucks sake, when will this end?

RedDogsBeg Tue 18-Sep-18 12:24:11

The TRAs and their handmaidens can't throw out the "not a true trans woman" trope about this individual, nor can they say no-one will go through the current process of getting a GRC or the far easier proposed self-id route in order to gain access to women and children for nefarious purposes.

When will the scales fall from the eyes of politicians et al regarding the insidious agenda behind this ideology?

miri1985 Tue 18-Sep-18 12:33:45

So a GRC establishes a "right" to be in the female estate according to the ECHR but what if this person proves to be as dangerous as Karen White? Can they be moved back to male prison or do they have to be segregated in female prison?

RedDogsBeg Tue 18-Sep-18 12:35:02

Also, if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

MacaroonMama Tue 18-Sep-18 12:37:18

Will this be used as case law? Absolutely not a lawyer, but the thought of a convicted sex offender getting the GRC and this being protected by the EA scares the bejesus out of me. Can it be used as legal precedent for other sick men to gain access to women and children? Really worried now.

Up for a protest, at the Ministry of Justice?

MacaroonMama Tue 18-Sep-18 12:41:13

I have had enough now. That book by Carol Shields ‘Unless’, where the daughter quits life to sit with a sign round her neck in silent protest - feeling v similar. But, as I imagine all of you do, there are the caring responsibilities, the children, the jobs around that etc. Just had to share that image as that is how I feel right now. Women and children are being thrown under a bus 😭

BabyItsAWildWorld Tue 18-Sep-18 12:59:29

I just cannot get my head around the presumably rationale people who are making these decisions and going along with this.

It is terrifying the ideologies you can convince people to go along with, through fear of social rejection and isolation. Once something becomes seen as the 'acceptable' view so few people will speak up, or even think rationally.

It is genuinely frightening. Ir makes me reflect on so much history that previously felt it could never happen now,.
But it is happening now, authorities are going along with madness, damaging madness, right here and now.

MacaroonMama Tue 18-Sep-18 13:00:57

Have just emailed this and the Karen White stuff to my MP who is on the justice select committee. I met him nearly a year ago and he was broadly supportive but didn’t think it would come to anything. Well it has.

seafret Tue 18-Sep-18 13:07:00

The law and judicial decisions are a disgrace and completely contrary. As Rowan says other judges have ruled that a prisoner must be transferred so that a man can live as a woamn to qualify for a GRC, yet this paedophile already managed it. FFS.

Single sex exemptions can be applied but are not. Name changes can be refused by the gov to sex offenders but are not. Stopping them changing their name would stop them even beginning to live as a woman.

NONE of the 'safeguards' work. NONE of this should ever have begun. No man has a 'right' to become a (fictional) woman.

arranfan Tue 18-Sep-18 13:15:51

Completely radical, off the cuff suggestion by the estimable Dr Kathleen Stock:

This person is reported as getting a Gender Recignition Certificate +in prison+. I had to get DBS checked the other day to mentor a uni applicant. This needs to stop. GRCs should not be issued to anyone with criminal record after age of 18. All applicants should be DBS checked. (For formatting reasons I needed to change Stock's ** to ++)

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1041933044930752512

I'm not ensure that is wholly practical/appropriate (my socialisation is flooding my mind with "whatabouteries") but I completely understand what prompts the comment.

LauraMipsum Tue 18-Sep-18 13:16:56

@MacaroonMama - no, it's not case law. There's no precedent set by it, but equally if this person has 2 diagnoses of dysphoria and has lived "as a woman" for 2 years (as far as possible at HMP Littlehey) then there's no further measure of suitability for a GRC.

One of my friends is passionately defending the "moral case" for letting paedophiles and rapists into women's prisons. i'm just horrified that this is now the supposedly progressive position.

AngryAttackKittens Tue 18-Sep-18 13:20:08

In the sense of let's pretend that there are no transwomen who're pedophiles or rapists because NoTrueTrans or in the sense that they're defending the right of these specific known pedos and rapists (White etc) to be in those spaces?

I don't think I'd be able to hold my tongue if it was the latter.

MacaroonMama Tue 18-Sep-18 13:33:32

Thank you LauraMipsum Was worries by that article written by a lawyer a while ago about was it parity? Measuring treatment of a TW against other men or women would have different outcomes? Thanks for clearing it up smile

LauraMipsum Tue 18-Sep-18 13:42:30

The latter, Angry. I've not held my tongue and I don't give a fuck if she thinks I'm a terf.

BettyDuMonde Tue 18-Sep-18 13:43:52

There are 12 transwomen inmates at Littlehey (men’s estate) according to recent news reports. One of them is child rapist, Carrie Cooper:

metro.co.uk/2018/09/08/rapist-transgender-woman-found-guilty-despite-calling-new-abuse-case-bks-7925539/

www.huntspost.co.uk/news/concern-over-access-to-avon-catalogue-for-transgender-inmates-1-5581733

Littlehey is almost all sex offenders.

Seeing as being an incarcerated sex offender is not a a barrier to receiving a GRC, can we assume the other trans inmates (either 11 or 12 of them, depending on whether Lewin was counted as one of the 12 or not back in June) will also be looking to move to the women’s estate, following Lewin’s example?

I wonder if we could start a mass letter writing campaign to imprisoned women? Both to offer solidarity and to hear their testimony, should they want to share it?

The voices of women prisoners are very much missing from this discussion.

seafret Tue 18-Sep-18 13:52:00

I've started a thread in AIBU god help me. This has to stop

Carrrotsandcauliflower Tue 18-Sep-18 13:58:20

I think some lawyer somewhere should be demanding the rights of the women in there to be housed in a female only prison. We need a test case a victim needs to be able to prosecute these attackers and the prison service or whoever this mess boils down to. This can’t be allowed to go on any longer it’s horrific.

MacaroonMama Tue 18-Sep-18 14:02:39

[applauds Seafret]

MipMipMip Tue 18-Sep-18 14:05:09

I'm willing to go to Peterborough if a protest is organised.

SirVixofVixHall Tue 18-Sep-18 14:35:15

I actually cried with anger and despair reading this on Twitter this morning. I was going to post a thread but thought I should wait until I was calmer.
HOW is a paedophile allowed to get a GRC while inside ? HOW is it acceptable to house him with women while he “waits for surgery” I think that will be a looooong wait eh ?
I am going to write to my MP about this. What else can we do ?

JillyArmeeen Tue 18-Sep-18 14:41:26

I would also come to Peterborough to protest.
I can't believe this is actually happening. Its like a sick joke.

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 14:42:18

There's no precedent set by it, but equally if this person has 2 diagnoses of dysphoria and has lived "as a woman" for 2 years (as far as possible at HMP Littlehey) then there's no further measure of suitability for a GRC.

This 'hack' document was linked on another thread this morning:

'NAVIGATING THE FRUSTRATION OF MEDICAL
TRANSITION FOR TRANS WOMEN IN THE UK'
bytenoise.co.uk/oh-for-fucks-sake/mascara-and-hope.pdf

seafret Tue 18-Sep-18 14:46:01

Thank you for the AIBU posts. Sorry if the AIBU is not quite right, or too strong or whatever. Just had to get something out there before i just got lost in tears of frustration.

Mad, mad world we live in. I have to go offline now. Hope we are turning the tide just a little.

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 14:48:53

HOW is a paedophile allowed to get a GRC while inside ? HOW is it acceptable to house him with women while he “waits for surgery”

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3368989-Trans-Porn-she-cock-she-male-etc

iamawoman Tue 18-Sep-18 14:52:28

Question to TRAs watching this. It seems that there seems to be a high proportion of sex offenders amongst the trans prisoners- is it because they are not really trans and masquerading to get a lighter, easier sentence, or is it that this cohort of the trans population are the ones who are trans due to a sexual fetish rather than dysphoria, or is it just because they are biological males !! Or a combination ....it's not looking good for public support for self id.

R0wantrees Tue 18-Sep-18 14:54:04

Heads up that this thread may be deleted if there is a parallel one one running in AIBU.

THis has just happened with the thread in FWR about mastectomies.

VickyEadie Tue 18-Sep-18 14:56:13

I see there are at least a couple of comments under the Mail article of the 'women wanted equal rights' (like that's even relevant in this case) and 'suck it up, you're criminals' variety.

The same sort of people making these comments would be out with machetes and pitchforks if these inmates were released and housed near them and their families.

VickyEadie Tue 18-Sep-18 15:00:44

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

THIS. Who do we ask about this?

ZuttZeVootEeVro Tue 18-Sep-18 15:31:13

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

I suppose a male loo and shower could have been labeled "female'. But we know that male transpeople aren't forced to use female facilities before being issued with a GRC. For a start, how could that be monitored and who is authorised to give them permission? They are using female facilities because they want to.

IAmLurkacus Tue 18-Sep-18 15:56:26

@VickyEadie

Here are emails of people you could ask:

info@womeninprison.org.uk info@prisonadvice.org.uk advice@prisonersadvice.org.uk

VickyEadie Tue 18-Sep-18 15:58:49

IAmLurkacus

Thanks!

SirVixofVixHall Tue 18-Sep-18 16:18:08

Vicky I assume it just means using a “female” name, wearing makeup etc. As though those things are how women live. Living as a women is a nonsense term, unless you are a woman, and not dead.

OldCrone Tue 18-Sep-18 16:44:01

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

I think I saw a report of one prisoner using the argument that they should be moved to a women's prison in order to get a GRC, because if they were in the women's estate they could prove that they were 'living as a woman'.

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