The New Misogyny

[BadasIwannaB]

Reading the March thread (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309913-March) got me thinking, we need a name for the problem we want to draw attention to. And it needs to be a name that makes it clear that it’s not that we are ‘transphobic’/denying transgender people’s human rights/right to exist etc.

I think people - especially journalists - can be lazy, and when they reach for a name to give to our concerns, the closest things - to their mind - to hand are things like ‘anti-trans’ etc.

And this isn’t helping us get listened to.

And it is making it very easy for us to be ignored and dissed.

So how about a name that makes it clear at a glance what we are taking issue with? So here’s a suggestion: ‘The New Misognyny’ or maybe ‘Misogyny 2.0’.

I mean, I’m sure both expressions have been used before in slightly different contexts, but here’s my thinking:

It makes it clear that what we are objecting to is the way that this supposed right-on-ness/wokeness is really just a free pass to ignore the concerns of women (summed up very nicely in comments from Wanderabout and Popchyk on the www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309903-Sexual-assaults-on-Vulnerable-Women-Prisoners thread:

‘The report references risk of harm to the male offender, not the female inmates forced to share accommodation with them.
This sums up everything that is wrong with that report and the state of the worldwide debate on this issue.’

and to threaten, intimidate and dehumanise women who dare to challenge the dogmas.

What do you think? Could it catch on? Could it help make clear what our problem is and get us listened to?

[ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen]

The problem is misogyny isn't a dirty word like "phobia". What we need is something more literal - like femphobic.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Yes... misogyny is all too normal, not taboo.

[ErrolTheDragon]

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, just not sure that terminology quite does it.

[HotRocker]

I’m not quite sure what you mean. Do we need a name for our movement, or a name for what we feel is happening to us?
Either way it has to be female centred, but if you’re after something palatable I don’t think it’s going to work. If we’re too blunt we’ll just be dismissed with the usual disdain women are treated with when they complain, but if we are too nice it’ll lack impact.

[BadasIwannaB]

Thanks Errol and Confessions. I hear ya. I totally agree that it’s never gonna get the total extremists to listen.

But in a way the thing that frustrates me the most is that many people I had thought were on the same page, people who would be horrified at misogyny usually and who see themselves as feminists, think we’re being bigoted etc.

I know there’s no name we can choose that will fix all the problems, but I thought it could help get THESE people to be less dismissive.

[BadasIwannaB]

Thanks Hotrocker. Good point - I can see I hadn’t done a great job at distinguishing the two. But I think either could potentially be helpful - a name for what we are against that is transparent about what our problem with it is. Or a name for our position that’s transparent about the motivation for it.

[Snappity]

I don't think the word is the problem.

Search for "Mumsnet transphobia" on Google.FWR has a reputation for being very transphobic. If the same views are expressed in the wider world, do you really think that the assessment is going to be any different?

[thebewilderness]

I think that if the homophobia and misogyny of formerly LGBT organizations is pointed out to the media and people in general they will recognize what they are seeing, hearing, writing, and reading.

[Racecardriver]

Well let's start with the issue. Natal women's rights are now second to the rights of trans women because they are apparently more deserving of women rights than natal women. The problem with calling is misogyny is that it is trans exclusionary as it comes across as trans women aren't actual women because they aren't the ones being targeted. There needs to be an exclusive term for trans women walking over natal women's rights failing to understand and respect the inherent disadvantages and vulnerabilities that female biology present. Rad fems need a term that says yes, trans women need women's rights too because they suffer many of the injustices that natal women suffer but many of the inequalities faced by natal women are exclusive to natal women because they arise from biology not socialisation. Just like trans women have their own problems, inequalities and injustices that arise as a result of being trans. It seems that the problem is that everyone is ignoring the fact that biology is in many instances a disadvantage to natal women because it goes against the sex is socialisation rhetoric. Perhaps something like uterophobe or sonething else that bares an undeniable link to biology so as to draw attention to the real reason why women a vulnerable in society. Gender can be overcome (trabsacticists are proof of this if anyone is), biology cannot. It can be suppressed with hormonal treatments like cobteaceptives, hrt or gender reassignment drugs but it cannot be changed and it cannot be denied with leading to the extinction of the human race.

[longtimelurkingtrans]

You will never defeat lazy journalism as some news rags will always go to lowest denominator or just deliberately dumb it down. What's needed is a red hot publicist along the lines of those used when politicians or celebs use for damage limitation if you see what I mean. A hard one as the TRA's are a tricky slippery lot.

[BarrackerBarmer]

I think we need a good strong image of the female form, uterus and all.
And this above
"SAY MY NAME"

This new misogyny is about refusing females our own name and our own recognition.

Let people feel the shock that comes with confronting the physical reality of female existence, then realising we are not allowed even a name.

[pombear]

A previous poster pondered If the same views are expressed in the wider world, do you really think that the assessment is going to be any different?

No, I think gradually it might be different. That's why trans rights activists are doubling down on this site right now.

That's what called a 'growing movement' ,as more and more people see the reality of what's going on and express the same views.

The assessent from some vociferous places, particularly on social media, will still scream 'transphobia'.

But more and more people will gradually understand that fighting for women and girls' existing rights are not 'transphobic

Definition of transphobic =dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

I have seen thread after thread where posters are empathetic to those who define themselves as 'trans'. No one emulates the 'terf-die in a fire' 'die cis-scum' behaviours of some trans rights activists.

They calmly discuss how the impact 'trans rights' may have on women and girls' rights, and what can be done to mitigate this.

Some people, some times, may get a bit grumpy. But I've yet to see prejudice and dislike of transpeople. (Unless you count a wariness and a highlighting of the group of transwomen with a sexual fetish who are included happily in the 'trans definition' by so many trans- campaigning groups. And if you can't understand the wariness around this group, particularly from females, your understanding of females is waaay off).

Not transphobic, as always, pro-woman's rights.

[Floorplan]

We do need a new term I agree

[ErrolTheDragon]

Unfortunately that's a word which has a distinct meaning, a medical definition

Gynephobia: An abnormal, irrational and persistent fear of women. Sufferers experience anxiety even though they realize they face no threat.

And I don't think the vogue for redefining clear, useful words is a good idea. Whatever is going on, it's not gynephobia - it may be irrational but it's not abnormal (all too normal, unfortunately) and not driven by fear. Contempt, or mere apathy towards women's rights.

We're women's rights defenders. This is not incompatible with supporting trans rights...up to the point they erode women's rights.

[TheBiologicalWoman]

Agree that there needs to be a word as loaded as transphobia.

As part of that we need to highlight:

"I am not a c** woman'

There are currently lots of posts calling women witches too. It is a modern day witch hunt.

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

This is an interesting question. To make a name which works is challenging as you need not just to think about it from our perspective, but as with any brand label, from the perspective of your audience. Words like misogyny don’t work - they aren’t clearly understood, aren’t snappy and easy to remember or spell, and just aren’t appealing linguistically or emotionally.

Women’s rights is unfortunately a somewhat perjoratively viewed phrase: linked in the mass population mind with women’s lib, strident feminists etc. So although it’s the essence of what we care about, I don’t think it’s appealing enough. And it leads to what about men’s rights etc etc.

Transphobia works so well as an accusation as it puts two concepts cleanly together and the phobia part carries with it strong emotional imagery from other phobias, so is instantly understood and clearly seen as a bad thing.

So what does work? What is appealing? What explains what we are about? What presents what we are after as a wholly good thing? Or conversely presents the TRA agenda as a wholly bad thing?

Words which we could play with and which have positive emotional resonance might include

Protecting
Preserving
Destroying

Safe
Equal
Fair

Rights
Opportunities
Advantages
Protections

Would love a good brain storm on this as so much the best way to come up with good ideas...

Where I am trying to head is towards a snappy phrase or words which say either

They are trying to destroy the sex-based protections we as a society feel are right for women and girls

Or

We are trying to protect women and girls.

[TheBiologicalWoman]

I think safeguarding is also a powerful word.

We are trying to safeguard our future, dcs' futures - and, as transexual Kristina Jayne points out in this video, current sex based rights will safeguard the future of transgender people.

[Rednaxela]

Totally agree a word is desperately needed.

The name of that Pride protest didn't help - what does get the l out even mean? I can't work it out. If they had called themselves something that ticked the boxes described in this thread then there is a chance that more people would have got the message. Because the press reporting would have had to include the name iyswim.

I have no ideas on what the name could be but yes yes yes it is desperately needed.

[TheBiologicalWoman]

To clarify Kristina refers to the protection of transexuals and others who are not using the trans umbrella for misogony, fetishes, paedophilia, violent activism, to access the vulnerable etc.

[Saisong]

Sexist/sexism says it mostly, and is a familiar word. Its the problem with it that it has lost impact?

[TheBiologicalWoman]

Yes I do think sexism is too watered down yet misogony isn't the right phrase either (even though that is exactly what this is).

It is about control.

[loveyouradvice]

safeguarding a very strong word... Safeguarding women and girls?

Protecting women and girls probably better...

Too long - but words like misogynistic aren't understood by lots of people....

[RabbitsAreTasty]

Pro-biology

Real Sexers