'Gender' should not be enshrined in law

[Pratchet]

It's a set of toxic stereotypes. Feminists are the only people able accurately to define it.

No transactivist is able to define it.

[thebewilderness]

That is just plain bizarre, innit?

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

You can't define a gender identity because it's entirely subjective. There are no other rights that are connected to something you can't prove. You can't get antenatal care if you're not pregnant. You can't get a passport or a driving licence without going through quite a number of hoops. For a licence you have to pass a test.

Riffs off to people having to take a test to discover what their gender identity is which wouldn't suit TW at all. Imagine failing the test!

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I was trying to think yesterday of a single gender norm that is consistent over time and culture. Women having to wear shitty shoes (including foot binding) was as close as I could get. Possibly having a proscribed body shape (but the shape has been emaciated through to morbidly obese).

Even personality traits. Maori women weren't expected to be demure and retiring as far as I've heard.

So what is being enshrined? The right to perform the stereotypical norms of the opposite sex in your particular time and location?

[Maryzsnewaccount]

It's the same for "gender segregation" - it makes no sense and is impossible to either legislate for or enforce.

Quite apart from the fact that there is no reason behind it at all. Why separate people into groups for sport, changing or statistics on the basis of their personality? Even if you could analyse that personality and put them neatly into recognisable categories to segregate, which you can't.

[Offred]

You could legislate to protect gender as a belief IMO.

Only the foolish or the bad minded would want gender conflated with or to replace sex.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Sex needs to stay enshrined in law as a protected characteristic. It must NOT be replaced by gender.

I suppose ‘gender identity’ could fall under religious type beliefs

[Maryzsnewaccount]

Added to which even the most rabid supporters of gender as a concept are having to admit it's indefinable.

Even a few years ago they were insistent that people were "male" or "female" gender; now they are admitting people can be any one of a gazillion (indefinable, indistinguishable and ever-changing) so-called genders. So how do we define any/all of them in law or practice?

[Maryzsnewaccount]

[Floorplan]

Exactly Mary, it's a moving target. But that's an advantage because as

[number of gender categories] -> infinity,

more and more people will realise it just means personal choice or personality

[ErrolTheDragon]

And transgender shouldn't be replacing transsexual either. Being a transsexual is a real, objective condition.

mobile.twitter.com/JustAngryBird/status/1017444210591567872

By all means as a separate issue protect people's right not to be discriminated against because of their 'presentation' - the way to do that is to demolish gender stereotypes.

[Dragoncake]

Defining gender as a religious belief makes great sense. It would allow for the constant changes in gendered beliefs over time and place. Those who believe in it should be protected from discrimination. Which definition as a spiritual practice would achieve.

The rest of us could then refuse to participate.

We are not obliged to wear Hijab, circumcise our newborn sons, mediate or avoid homosexuality to validate other spiritual beliefs. Why should we be obliged to pretend that a male is literally female?

[Dragoncake]

YY Errol. Transsexuals are getting a very raw deal here.

[Floorplan]

They are peaktransing as we speak apparently (transexuals). But wouldn't you if the medical condition you had was being eradicated from British law.

[Floorplan]

They are our natural allies as we, they and lesbians are all being erased. No wonder lesbians were the first to outright March in protest (to my knowledge ) as they are being erased twice! What must that feel like.

[OvaHere]

If gender identity is enshrined in law it occurs to me that those of us sadly born without a gender identity are going to be very marginalised and vulnerable.

We are probably going need campaigns, funding and support groups to raise awareness of how much people born without a gender identity suffer and are oppressed in a society that caters to those who have one.

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

Defining gender as a religious belief makes great sense.

Who's their God?

[Floorplan]

Their God is the Gender Fairy

[Floorplan]

She is the Tooth Fairy's cousin twice removed

[FesteringCarbuncle]

Of course it shouldn't. It is entirely subjective
We should be fighting against gender norms not reinforcing them

[FesteringCarbuncle]

The great God penis is the ruler of gender

[TiltedTowers]

yeh if we were really moving forward we'd all accept more feminine men and more masculine women.

Making genders MorE specified is nonsense.

[TiltedTowers]

@mrsterrypratchett yes absolutely that is the crux of what is so ludicrous

[Imnobody4]

Exactly SpartacusAutisticus.

[KimCheesePickle]

Gender is superficial lifestylism... it's like being a mod or a rocker; a cat person or a dog person; a tea drinker or a coffee drinker; a BBC viewer or an ITV viewer... it might be an important part of a person's life, but there's nothing substantive or politically meaningful about it in a societal/medical/sporting etc context. Imagine going to the toilets in an unfamiliar pub and seeing the image of coffee beans on one door and tea leaves on the other. That's how absurd I feel it is to segregate by gender... how about pictures of lipstick and brylcream as toilet door symbols