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Women as a minority

(18 Posts)
tobee Thu 21-Jun-18 18:52:24

Been thinking about this for a few days, especially since the bfi stuff.

I've always thought/understood women were a minority group (under represented in board rooms etc etc).

However, we are also numerically half of the population. We don't see why we should be ignored as such.

But then when we pipe up about erosion of women 's spaces, rights and so on, we receive the reply "we don't want to discredit against anyone". For that read "we don't want to discriminate against poor, oppressed trans people but we don't mind discriminating against women."

Do you think the general population see women as a minority? Or is it that we are not the latest fad minority to virtue signal over and protect?

I'm not sure how well I've put this, but it seems we are damned all ways round and can't win. sad

Imnobody4 Thu 21-Jun-18 19:14:26

I think the protection of minorities has completely overtaken the concept of institutional discrimination and structural disadvantage where women are concerned. For example we can be prosecuted , spoken to by the police regarding hate speech against a protected minority, but we have no protection.
When it was discussed in parliament Victoria Atkins said

At the moment we have no clear evidence to show the extent to which the range of crimes committed against women and girls are specifically motivated by misogyny, which is defined as

“the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.”

However, we must be careful about creating laws that would inadvertently conflict with principles of equality. My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is no longer in his place, but he raised a point about misandry. Under the Equalities Act 2010, certainly in the workplace we must balance the issue of equality. For example, our laws on religious hate crime provide equal protection for people of all faiths and of none. Equality of protection is a crucial element of ensuring public support for hate crime legislation. In other words, if we were to have hate crime in relation to gender, we would have to think carefully about whether that would apply to the entire population or just to half of it.
I'm not sure if there's such a thing as hate speech against heterosexuals.
To be honest I'm not sure why we have a Women's Minister at all.

Serfisafleur Thu 21-Jun-18 19:16:10

Women are not a minority group. confused

We are an opressed group.
A majority of the poplutaion opressed group.

Serfisafleur Thu 21-Jun-18 19:19:31

Minority groups means BMA or LGBT or disabled etc. Not female.

tobee Thu 21-Jun-18 19:20:03

Yes that's part of my question. Are women a minority and is it helpful if they are listed as such?

tobee Thu 21-Jun-18 19:24:44

If you google "women as a minority" sociologists often includes women as a minority group. Wikipedia, for what it's worth, also debates this.

Calling us an oppressed group doesn't necessarily get women any further in the pecking order of groups compared to trans for example.

UpstartCrow Thu 21-Jun-18 19:24:48

Imnobody4 We have a Women's Minister because women are not treated with equal respect to men or any other group, despite doing the majority of the childcare and shit work on behalf of society, re the first paragraph of your confusing post.

For example, the Govt are to debate removing the right to housing benefit for people in Domestic Violence refuges. This will disproportionately affect women attempting to leave abusive homes, and their children.
Given the actual death rate of women and children in the UK every week, and the cost to the nation of DV; this should be a no brainer.

PaintBySticker Thu 21-Jun-18 19:27:27

Women aren’t a minority but we are disadvantaged as a group. You could discriminate against a man and that would be wrong but it’s not generally a problem.

If we consider religious discrimination, Christianity and not having any religion are in a similar position as men - you could discriminate against people in those groups but they don’t suffer disadvantage as a group.

At least that’s my understanding!

UpstartCrow Thu 21-Jun-18 19:28:00

Women count as a minority because we aren't taken seriously or listened to, despite being 50% of the population.

Who is considered to be the main expert on domestic violence or rape in the UK today? Given the cost to the nation, why isn't it a major issue?

Why are women still paying a Tampon Tax, and why is that money being squandered instead of going to Rape Crisis and DV shelters as promised?

grasspigeons Thu 21-Jun-18 19:28:04

We are smaller so we take up less space

More seriously, I'm not in a minority. I'm under represented

Serfisafleur Thu 21-Jun-18 19:29:39

No, women are not a minority group.

If you're back and you're born and living in Africa, you're not a minority group but you are an opressed group. White people in Africa have privilege even though they are in the minority.

<Generally. Obviously not all whatever are like that>

DuchyDuke Thu 21-Jun-18 19:30:14

White Women aren’t a minority they’re considered an oppressed group. However non-white women ARE minorities AND oppressed groups and so should have targetted AA / Diversity programmes for them.

Imnobody4 Thu 21-Jun-18 19:34:00

Yes I think women need to be separate from minorities as the issues are totally different. It isn't just about equality but changing society to recognise women as half the population with specific needs. The fact that no one is consulting women shows there is hierarchy.

tobee Thu 21-Jun-18 19:36:37

These are interesting replies.

Basically, oppressed group, under represented, minority group, whatever, we are shat upon.

BiologyIsReal Thu 21-Jun-18 20:09:59

Why are women still paying a Tampon Tax,

Ask the wonderful EU. They're the ones who won't allow the UK to ditch it completely.

PeakPants Thu 21-Jun-18 20:18:24

No, women are not a minority group. I think there are more men than women in the world. They are protected though.

I think part of the issue (and I am talking in a broader sense, not just about trans issues) is that so many women are prepared to go along with the patriarchy and accept gendered roles. The amount of times I have heard women say 'oh, I am not a feminist and actually men are better at X, Y, Z'. We had some idiotic debate on TV recently where a woman said that she was worried that female pilots weren't safe because they might get PMT and that if the plane crashed she would rather be rescued by a man. So many women taking pride in being 'traditional'. I had one friend insisting on saying the 'honour and obey' wedding vows. In 2010.

I don't know but I have never heard a black person say 'actually I do think white people are superior- I am happy being oppressed'. I think when the group itself constantly seems to validate its lower status and actively claim to enjoy it, it becomes easier for people to just trample on that group and dismiss their views as unimportant.

tobee Thu 21-Jun-18 20:43:35

Yes but there's such an entrenched structure to the patriarchal society that many women brainwashed by it. It may be that women claim to be ok about being repressed but similarly I don't see that many men feeling guilty and even less men trying to do anything about it. Otherwise #metoo would have happened long ago.

I just keep coming back to the replies we get given about favouring trans and ignoring barefaced discrimination of women to enable that. In particular with the bfi and Munroe Bergdorf, they knew full well what they were up to and desired the controversy hitting the headlines for publicity.

ElenOfTheWays Thu 21-Jun-18 21:22:23

I think this about covers where I am right about now.

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