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Why should we be made to lie?

(146 Posts)
spontaneousgiventime Mon 18-Jun-18 19:16:15

Before the guidelines we, biological women, were free to tell the truth about people who present as the opposite sex.

Now we can't. Even if we abide by the rules and not use the acronyms listed we can still get a strike, three strikes and we are out.

I will NOT refer to people who present as the opposite sex as trans wo/men. That steals my sex and I won't do it. I tried to use another name I thought was reasonable - nope, not acceptable and got a strike.

MN, why do you want your members to lie. I along with millions like me were brought up always to tell the truth, yet here on MN that's looked down on. Why?

thebewilderness Mon 18-Jun-18 19:20:46

Women and children have been conditioned to lie to appease men.
Women are traditionally tasked with inculcating this training.
I feel like I am caught up in one of those evo psycho experiments they used to do on children in the seventies.

JuzzaL Mon 18-Jun-18 19:23:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PermissionToSpeakSir Mon 18-Jun-18 19:23:51

It is disgraceful that we are being denied the right to reject an ideology and its language because the followers of the faith use threats.

A fucking disgrace.

AnotherQuoll Mon 18-Jun-18 19:31:27

We should not be made to lie. We should not be compelled to pretend we believe males are female, or any other sex but male. Especially on a Feminist board.

Chocolatecake84 Mon 18-Jun-18 19:36:35

I agree. We should not be made to lie. I think it's absolutely shameful.

It's not only a matter of free speech and freedom of belief. It's a matter of facts.

Men are not women. Males are not females. End of.

MsMcWoodle Mon 18-Jun-18 19:37:58

Absolutely agree. It's shocking.
Like that judge making maria use preferred pronouns for her attacker.

spontaneousgiventime Mon 18-Jun-18 19:40:38

Like that judge making maria use preferred pronouns for her attacker.

This.

We swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth as long as we lie about sex.

Terfulike Mon 18-Jun-18 19:43:05

Why do we have to lie? There's no sense to it. Why do certain "special" males come to a mums' website and tell us how to speak? Why is mn putting their tantrums ahead of our right to state biological facts. It's actually a disgrace, it's shameful.

Terfulike Mon 18-Jun-18 19:45:35

Anyway the tide is definitely turning.

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/

AllAboutAdamAndEve Mon 18-Jun-18 19:49:38

I feel like Harry Potter being given a quill by Umbridge.

LastGirlOnTheLeft Mon 18-Jun-18 19:51:53

I can't lie. I can't say these men are women. It's ridiculous. It's harmful, it's gaslighting, it's humiliating. It's taking away our autonomy. I think MN made a MASSIVE mistake with this. How can anyone take them seriously now, when they make decisions like this?

spontaneousgiventime Mon 18-Jun-18 19:57:23

I won't lie, I can't. How am I to be expected to when I don't any other time. It is shameful, deeply shameful.

Lifesavingorange Mon 18-Jun-18 20:00:55

I won’t lie either. The new guidelines have actually made me feel even more resolute. I will not call men women. I will find others ways to describe them but I will not lie.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse Mon 18-Jun-18 20:07:05

You can threaten me and beat me up and try to silence me and repress me. You can ban me here, there and everywhere.

You cannot alter these facts. You cannot change the truth. You cannot force me to lie, or to think or believe something that is factually wrong. I don't believe it. MNHQ don't believe it. Misogynists don't believe it.

Why are you engaging in this charade MNHQ?

spontaneousgiventime Mon 18-Jun-18 20:07:18

A message board is fully entitled to make their own rules for posting, I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is the policing of language to the point where we can't tell the truth. That cannot be reasonable or fair. Is it even legal under the EA?

crayoladreamz Mon 18-Jun-18 20:08:47

We have to lie to keep the men happy.

Mumsnet is fed up of the abuse and threats it must be getting behind the scenes from
Men

Mumsnet has decided to take an easier path and appease the men at the expense of all women.

SpartacusAutisticus Mon 18-Jun-18 20:10:08

I won't lie either.

Transwomen are not women and I will not collude in their delusion and the resultant loss of girls and women's spaces and provisions.

LangCleg Mon 18-Jun-18 20:10:23

I won't be lying. And there are terms, no matter how hard others try to compel me to use them, that I will not be using.

SpartacusAutisticus Mon 18-Jun-18 20:11:49

It would be easier if MN just stopped feminist discussion TBH. We can't discuss feminism without discussing sex and truth.

AntiqueOlive Mon 18-Jun-18 20:12:56

Its ridiculous that FWR posters should be on a 3 strikes and you're out and other boards don't have the same rule.

Its bizarre that there is no definitive pinned announcement at the top of FWR if this is indeed the case. Are we supposed to guess?

There is no clarity, or parity in evidence.

Having to rely on word of mouth what's ok and what's not, surmising within threads to extrapolate the meaning and application of the New Think leaves us tying ourselves in knots and the 3 strikes become a foregone conclusion.

RatRolyPoly Mon 18-Jun-18 20:15:13

I was under the impression that many posters turned to the dictionary as the arbiter of truth?

"Transwoman" is in there.

ChickenOrEgg6 Mon 18-Jun-18 20:15:22

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

spontaneousgiventime Mon 18-Jun-18 20:17:26

I suppose it is a sad but foregone conclusion some of us (me included) will end up banned because truth is more important than MN.

alexpolistigers Mon 18-Jun-18 20:20:06

I do not use incorrect pronouns to refer to people either. I refuse to. Just as I do not recite the creed of Catholicism or profess Muslim beliefs. This is an act of belief too.

Well, I do not believe. Forcing me to use incorrect pronouns is in direct opposition to my beliefs and philosophy.

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