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Appropriate Language: Transfeminine & Transmasculine

(26 Posts)
GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 13:25:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 14:02:56

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loveyouradvice Mon 18-Jun-18 15:02:33

gardengeek your logic is impeccable.... but sadly can't see myself using it.. just feeling too pissed off at the moment!

TERFragetteCity Mon 18-Jun-18 15:05:17

Doesn't really work for me.

What is 'feminine' about these three for example?

ErrolTheDragon Mon 18-Jun-18 15:07:08

Those do seem like the appropriate terms for people who identify as transgender rather than transsexual.

Do you know if 'transmasculine' is more widely used than 'transfeminine' at the moment?

Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 15:08:42

I just hate the use of feminine and masculine in general to describe personality traits. I find it problematic outside of foreign language grammar. Who defines which is which?

Strigiformes Mon 18-Jun-18 15:08:50

That seems OK, nice and clear too.

ErrolTheDragon Mon 18-Jun-18 15:12:56

Gender terms like masculine and feminine can mean what the heck any particular culture wants, so IMO people who want to be defined in terms of 'gender' are welcome to them.

PermissionToSpeakSir Mon 18-Jun-18 15:16:14

Not my cup of tea.
'Feminine' and 'masculine' are bound up in unhelpful sexist stereotypes that are also subjective.

I don't have any interest in reinforcing sexist ideology that harms women and gives blokes a boner thanks.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 19:08:13

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ErrolTheDragon Mon 18-Jun-18 19:15:06

I find it somewhat interesting that 'transmasculine' is commonly used whereas 'transfeminine' isn't. Do you think it's because the former are less inclined, or feel less entitled, or simply less able, to appropriate the word 'man' ? Or maybe more honest.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 19:25:01

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Mumsnut Mon 18-Jun-18 19:25:28

transmasc and transfem for short?

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 19:28:35

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Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 19:37:03

I use the phrase 'people who are biologically male' or 'people who are biologically female' because the meaning is clear to us all but trans people can't complain because people is neutral and they declare themselves to be biologically of the category they identify with. That way we can reach out to the uninitiated and there is nothing they can do about it!

ErrolTheDragon Mon 18-Jun-18 19:39:37

I saw transfemme somewhere, I think on the NUS trans conference thread.

Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 19:39:58

Perhaps PBM and PBF? Just an idea.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 20:51:21

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Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 21:10:16

GardenGeek

But how do you acknowledge gender if you don't believe gender exists?

You could theorise labels for different people. However the categories are shifting all the time. I believe in time (not too distant future) current spokespeople for trans will themselves be excommunicated by their own because of shifts in belief. E.g. people who have surgery will eventually be disowned by the movement for being 'biologically essentialist'. You can't attempt 'once and for all' terms under these conditions.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 21:45:03

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Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 21:47:21

GardenGeek

Just read yiur posts on trans athletes thread. I understand what you are trying to say. For a proportion of reasonable trans people that will be enough - it always has been enough. But for the current crop of vocal nitwits it never will be. The point for them is the very act of dominating our sex and entering our spaces. They will accept nothing less. You can't reason with or accommodate them. The best hope I think is for divisions to happen within them along blanchard lines if you know what I mean.

thebewilderness Mon 18-Jun-18 21:50:28

I think to be properly inclusive we need to say genderists and transgenderists.

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 21:51:06

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Norther Mon 18-Jun-18 21:51:26

Blanchard as in some day soon my mother's sister will no longer enjoy visiting the capital of france. Does that sufficiently get around naming individuals?!!!

GardenGeek Mon 18-Jun-18 21:58:17

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