Gender Identity is an oxymoron

[CantankerousCamel]

Maybe someone here can explain this to me.

Gender is the name given to the social roles and practises enforced due to sex class

That’s what the word has always meant, it was first coined by some dude called John in the middle of the last century and has always meant this.

Identity is an innate sense of self, personality if you will.

So the two cannot go together, you cannot adjust the social scripting enforced due to your sex class with personality, that’s why it’s enforced. Otherwise it’s not gender.

Obviously feminism has always promoted identity over gender, because how we see ourselves and how we project ourselves should be more important than how society scripts us due to sex class, but that is abolition of gender.

I don’t understand the term ‘gender identity’ I don’t understand why, when people use it, they’re unable to give this alternative definition of either gender or identity that makes those words go together.

An arbitrary understanding of sociology shows that the words are opposite. One is how you see yourself, the other how society scripts you.

I believe Gender Identity is double speak, like Male woman or girl penis.

[Dragoncake]

Excellent point.

[CantankerousCamel]

Whenever someone uses it I automatically ask them to define the two terms and then explain how in a million years they can go together

[flowersonthepiano]

I believe the concept of gender identity arose from one or two cases of intersex people who were operated on soon after they were born to 'correct' their genitals, i.e., but who grew up believing they should have been the opposite sex to that they were 'assigned', which is also where 'sex assigned at birth'.

[BarrackerBarmer]

Exactly right.

Gender = group (literally from the root genus I believe)
Identity = individual

You cannot as an individual know and match the feelings of a group of others.
None of us know each others minds, other than by communicating specifics and finding common ground.

Gender ideologists will proclaim 'I individually have a very deep sense of self as X' and then turn to me and say 'you too. We are the same'.

They want to claim their own individuality of feelings but assign mine to me so that we apparently match. Along with several billion other women.

It's all balderdash.

[flowersonthepiano]

...comes from (bloody typos this evening!)

[Picassospaintbrush]

It is a word salad psuedo "ology" developed by cross dressing fetishists in the US to enable the demobilisation of legal sex, and export this globally. Female gender allows men to be "women" whenever they want and engage in fetish behaviours in plain sight.

Gender Identity politics are completely fake. They are attempting to exploit the real experience transsexuals to drive this fetishists agenda.

It's working. Or it was.

[CantankerousCamel]

The intersex argument is a red herring. I did my thesis on gender and sport, rather than intersex but obviously covered it a lot.

People are either Male or female intersex. These cases of ambiguity are incredibly small.

[CantankerousCamel]

I blame Foucault mostly

And that J woman whose name escapes me right this second. The ‘it’s only a mountain because I’m looking at it’
Brigade.

The whole notion of ‘stepping into’ your social role is the worst example of privileged white feminism imaginable.

[flowersonthepiano]

Cantakerous Yes, but I think the case (is there more than one) that is cited is a male intersex person who's penis was removed and raised as a girl, but grew up to insist he was a boy. I've heard it cited a few times and not refuted.

I still don't believe everyone has a gender identity, but I've started to wonder whether maybe males are more likely to than females. Difficult to test I imagine, given the influence of social conditioning.

[Picassospaintbrush]

Gawd. Not the PWF bollocks. I'm off.

[CantankerousCamel]

flowers

I think men can ‘believe’ they have the identity of a female because they have such minimal issues with puberty. Women have periods, obvious secondary sexual characteristics, early sexualisation due to this etc. Men really just have the worry of an inconvinent erection.

Women’s identities are understandably much rooted in their biology, which affects how they’re treated, how they feel and how they behave.
I’m not sure men have to deal with that so can glibly announce they ‘feel like’ women simply because they don’t ‘feel like’ men.

[CantankerousCamel]

Picasso what is PWF?

[Picassospaintbrush]

What did you say that fits the acronym?

[CantankerousCamel]

Ohhh I see.

I’m not sure why you’ve taken such offence to that. Clearly the only people who can choose the role they have in life are those who are exceptionally privileged

Julie (I want to say Bindel but it’s not her she’s rad) labels herself as a feminist without being able to identify her own privilege.

There’s lots to discuss here, Please don’t leave because you don’t feel you can discuss that.

[LightofaSilveryMoon]

So, I have a half-bag of potatoes I need to use. Any suggestions?

[Picassospaintbrush]

Aargh. Not every "takes offence". They can just get bored with rattled off stereotyping like "PWF" and stop listening.

I have yet to meet anyone that writes "identifying their own privilege" that can speak interestingly without these cliches.

I find that language tedious and stultifying.

[CantankerousCamel]

Are you writing about yourself in the third person and attempting an enormous derail picasso

Erm, okay.

I’m quite capable of speaking on a number of topics thanks. If you’re bored please feel free not to engage.

[CantankerousCamel]

FWIW i fail to see how anyone who has sfudied the trials and tribulations of women around the world can believe it is possible to ‘step into’ ones role in society. Which is the basis for gender politics.

The idea that you choose your social scripting is a new one and completely devoid of understanding of the plight of women and girls. Particularly those in correspondingly oppressive socio-economic groups.

[LightofaSilveryMoon]

Oh, do fuck off with your game-playing!, Cantank!

[CantankerousCamel]

‘Game playing’?

[Picassospaintbrush]

Cantank

You sound like you have come to show of your eminent learned gender studies. You will get handed your arse here I'm afraid. We are a tad more down to earth on this board. But no less intelligent.

Maybe drop the uni speak and say what you mean?

[spontaneousgiventime]

I didn't do gender studies I live it. I don't like being looked down on and any one who thinks they are going to can fuck right off!

[CantankerousCamel]

Ive not come to look down on anyone, I’ve come to discuss the term ‘gender identity’ and how it fundamentally doesn’t work as a saying.

I also never studied ‘gender studies’

I apologise for going to uni(!)

[spontaneousgiventime]

Why would you apologise for going to Uni? All my kids did and I'm proud of them all.

[Smallhorse]

I’ve got a degree in sociology and I’m comfused.

What does PWF stand for ?

Why so hard on OP?

And OP, can you state your original point again, more simply ? I really don’t understand , and I am considered quite bright.
Thank you