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Jo Cox women in leadership should just change its name

(80 Posts)
CosmicCanary Mon 04-Jun-18 07:59:40

To, Jo Cox anyone who decides they are a women in leadership.

Apparently their tag line is

The Jo Cox Women in Leadership Programme is a training programme for passionate and experienced women members who are ready to lead in the Labour Party.

The Labour party hate women. They dont want them in leadership roles. They dont value womens opinions and voices.

After 22 years as a labour party member I have cancelled my membership.

Kyanite Mon 04-Jun-18 08:28:27

They weren't the only one who graduated...but yeah.

twitter.com/LabourWomensNet

Kyanite Mon 04-Jun-18 08:37:23

I keep hoping that Jess Phillips will say something but there's not a peep. She can't be in favour of it or we would know about it.

CosmicCanary Mon 04-Jun-18 08:39:55

I know many other women graduated but the fact that 1 women missed out on a place in favour of a man saddens and disgusts me.

Popchyk Mon 04-Jun-18 09:41:20

Seems like there are 60 people there.

And 2 of them are men who identify as women.

So that is 3.3% of the spaces already given over to men who identify as women. And given how regularly we are told that it is a tiny percentage of society, they seem to be much over-represented. Sheer talent must account for it, I suppose.

My advice to the Women in Leadership programme? Do not allow other people to dictate your own agenda.

ChickenMe Mon 04-Jun-18 10:25:22

The Twitter comments on the Sophie one are mostly WTF.
How has this happened?

Popchyk Mon 04-Jun-18 10:30:56

Sophie Cook teaches 'leadership masterclass' courses.

And yet was given a place on a course about how to learn leadership skills.

Melamin Mon 04-Jun-18 11:12:36

confused
What is the course actually for?

Tanith Mon 04-Jun-18 11:13:16

That should be the basis of any complaint: that, in their haste to be seen as liberal (small L smile), they wasted a place on someone who didn’t need it.

SpareRibFem Mon 04-Jun-18 11:19:35

The comments underneath on twitter though...

But I bet the woke corbynites don't go after the many men commenting wtf

trumptrump Mon 04-Jun-18 11:24:45

Wow! Twitter is not happy about this..

Also, the few posts supporting Sophie have no upvotes...

I think the public have peak transed!

Melamin Mon 04-Jun-18 11:28:13

Maybe the tras that usually pile on are too busy hassling mumsnet?

OlennasWimple Mon 04-Jun-18 11:38:06

Those comments.... Waiting for the Twitter ban hammer to be wielded against all those men who have said far, far worse than anything I've ever read on MN

ChickenMe Mon 04-Jun-18 11:50:40

Yes I thought that-some of the comments from men are far more controversial than things women have been banned for

ChickenMe Mon 04-Jun-18 12:12:12

If I was on twitter I would be @ ing them and saying come on ban these men like you did the women?!

TerfsUp Mon 04-Jun-18 12:18:10

Another nail in the Labour Party's political coffin.

trumptrump Mon 04-Jun-18 12:33:00

Honestly, reading the comments, I almost feel sorry for Labour. This will haunt them for years to come. At the same time, it is exactly what they deserve.

The Tories must be finding this hilarious.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 12:35:22

Sophie Cook teaches 'leadership masterclass' courses.

There seem to be a number of trans women involved in providing training and consultancy services featuring in recent discussions:

cf threads:
"Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees" (homeless shelter for women)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

Tara Hewitt 'Trans People and cancer session' for HCPs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3RfsVu73Q
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3257491-Strong-words-from-feminists-unhappy-with-trans-exclusionary-ideology

Delia Johnson: Sport and Police
metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/transgender-woman-on-her-desperate-struggle-with-her-new-identity-and-how-she-was-accepted-by-the-fa-but-not-her-daughter-5376352/?ito=cbshare
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266050-ManFriday-article-in-the-Daily-Mail?pg=2

2rebecca Mon 04-Jun-18 12:45:13

There are so few things like this that are women only that transwomen taking women's places is bound to seem unfair and make people angry.
If labour want more transexuals in politics then they should have a special programme for them, or have a general training for leadership programme open to anyone.
Transmen don't generally go after men only stuff (and there are still plenty of male only or male dominated groups).
In my life there is hardly anything I do that is woman only, most of my activities are mixed sex.
It would be easy for transwomen to participate in life as a woman without pushing in to the few women only spaces.
As a tactic this is just pissing people off and is making people more anti-trans as they are seen as being anti-woman and trying to replace us.

TerfsUp Mon 04-Jun-18 12:46:10

There seem to be a number of trans women involved in providing training and consultancy services featuring in recent discussions:

Just goes to show that when you transition you don't stop mansplaining.

TerfsUp Mon 04-Jun-18 12:47:04

As a tactic this is just pissing people off and is making people more anti-trans as they are seen as being anti-woman and trying to replace us.

And that is a very good thing. They should do this more often.

Sarahconnor1 Mon 04-Jun-18 12:49:11

Just goes to show that when you transition you don't stop mansplaining

grin

Wakame Mon 04-Jun-18 12:49:59

It doesn't stop there - I have heard that "We Need To Talk UK" keep platforming a self-described cross-dressing man to discuss the impact on women of the Gender Recognition Act.

OrchidInTheSun Mon 04-Jun-18 12:55:59

Don't forget Anna Lee was on the first programme and I fully expect Madigan to be on the next one.

Twitter comments are hilarious though.

fmsfms Mon 04-Jun-18 12:57:17

"I keep hoping that Jess Phillips will say something but there's not a peep. She can't be in favour of it or we would know about it."

To best of my knowledge Phillips seems to be trying to maintain a foot in each camp.

As someone that previously worked in domestic violence setups she understands the need for womens spaces, I suspect she doesn't want to lose her intersectional feminist credentials by challenging trans women rights

boatyardblues Mon 04-Jun-18 12:58:50

What hashtag is the chatter happening under?

Picassospaintbrush Mon 04-Jun-18 13:03:09

Wakame, are you being sarky there?

You are naughty.

noeffingidea Mon 04-Jun-18 13:08:02

boatyardblues try #labourlosingwomen

FormerlyPickingOakum Mon 04-Jun-18 13:10:20

There's a decent income to be made in "training course" provision, particularly around equalities.

It's a way of covering your back as an employer. You can then say "all our staff have had training in (this case) issues surrounding transgenderism" and that ticks off your adherence to equalities legislation and policy.

Ergo, if anyone complains, it passes the buck from employer to employee.

The problem is getting the people to deliver the training. So if you set yourself up as a trainer in this area, you ca get a lot of work. There's no real screening of your qualifications.

Sarahconnor1 Mon 04-Jun-18 13:13:10

boatyardblues also try

mobile.twitter.com/LabourWomensNet/status/1003204681202626560

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 13:13:19

Maybe the tras that usually pile on are too busy hassling mumsnet?

There's a significant event happening today in London:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

Worth following #WSPFEvents on Twitter

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 13:17:15

FormerlyPickingOakum

I was particularly interested in the training/consultancy offered in two of the examples that I gave. My own experience includes having worked in services for people who were homeless and also being involved with cancer services/charities as a patient.

boatyardblues Mon 04-Jun-18 13:23:22

Thanks Effing.

nauticant Mon 04-Jun-18 13:43:36

At least the link by Sarahconnor1 has cheered me up (repeated below):

twitter.com/LabourWomensNet/status/1003204681202626560

Sarahconnor1 Mon 04-Jun-18 13:50:17

nauticant

It's revealing isn't it. When you translate this into the real world and get away from pissing bathrooms it starts to open eyes.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 13:54:59

It's revealing isn't it. When you translate this into the real world and get away from pissing bathrooms it starts to open eyes

cf comments under recent newspaper articles online:
The Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-activist-bullies-stop-donations-for-schoolchildren-cgj29rcdl

Daily Mail
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Guardian
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

nauticant Mon 04-Jun-18 13:59:31

Every time I see the response of your average person to what trans ideology means in practice I feel optimistic.

The bathroom debate is a complete dead end* and everyone on the gender critical side should avoid raising it whenever possible.

* susceptible to "but it's been happening for years with no problem!" and "but bathrooms can be modified to solve this!" responses

CaitlynsCat Mon 04-Jun-18 14:06:51

There aren't many comments under Ms. Jelly'N'Dildos '99, for some reason.

Sarahconnor1 Mon 04-Jun-18 14:10:55

R0wantrees

I haven't read the guardian for a while now so those comments were interesting, has there been some movement of opinion with the readership or was that less heavily moderated than usual.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 14:14:28

Sarahconnor1

It's interesting.. I don't know but there weren't many comments complaining about heavy moderation (which is often the case). Perhaps its the focus of the article being about education and the best way to support childen?
I thought that both the article and comments showed balance.

OvaHere Mon 04-Jun-18 14:17:55

The Jo Cox and AWS situation makes me so angry and disappointed.

Women have barely been allowed 100 years of political voice and influence compared to the millennia had by men, even less in some countries and still none at all in some parts of the world.

Yet here we are are in 2018 and males have found a way to muscle back in to the spaces and platforms we have fought for and carved out as our own. angry

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 14:34:26

With regards affirmative action for those people born male who identify as women/girls, there is an article in today's Daily Mail:

'Anti-HPV jab will be given to teenage boys... but only if they identify as girls so that 'they fit in with their peers'

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5799375/Anti-HPV-jab-given-teenage-boys-identify-girls.html

This raises the issue that boys who do not identify as girls continue to be ineligible for the vaccination. There have been calls for some time to allow the vaccine for boys as well as girls.
(extract)
"New official advice makes clear that transgender girls – that is, those born male – will be offered the Gardasil jab so they fit in with ‘their peers’.

However, boys will continue to be denied the vaccine, which protects against the human papillomavirus (HPV), which causes cervical cancer among other forms of the disease."

(continues)
"The virus is spread by sex, intimate contact and kissing. Yet HPV kills some 650 men a year, mainly due to oral cancers.

While cervical cancer deaths are slowly declining, the number of HPV-related cancers in men is rising fast.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has argued inoculating boys would not be cost-effective, as most would be protected anyway as a by-product of female vaccination."

Melamin Mon 04-Jun-18 14:37:20

They should vaccinate boys as well angry

noeffingidea Mon 04-Jun-18 15:07:09

Boys should be offered the vaccination to protect the gay/bisexual male population. It's really outrageous that this group is being ignored.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 15:10:42

I wonder if this is being lobbied for by LGBT+ groups... Stonewall etc? I would have thought this health issue would be a more pressing concern than affirmation.

noeffingidea Mon 04-Jun-18 15:18:42

Agree with you, Rowan . To argue that 'most boys' will be protected by girls being vaccinated is just downright homophobic, not to mention ignoring reality.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 15:34:00

Reference to an ongoing campaign at the end of the Mail article:
(concludes)
"The Mail on Sunday has been campaigning to end the vaccine apartheid.

Last week, we revealed how the Throat Cancer Foundation has launched legal action against Jeremy Hunt to force the Health Secretary to end the policy of giving jabs to girls only.

Public Health England declined to explain why it was extending the jab to boys who identified as girls, but not to others"

LGBT+ groups could add weight to the campaign (perhaps they already are? I've no idea.)

OutsideContextProblem Mon 04-Jun-18 15:52:20

No vaccination is completely without risks though. To expose 100% of boys to that risk when (say) only 10% of them will benefit from its protection is a difficult call, and it is something the NHS needs to bear in mind (it also raises the question of cost effectiveness). However the understanding of the risks of common head and neck cancers caused by HPV (as opposed to the incredibly rare penile and anal cancers) has moved on which means that the risk of female to male transmission from unvaccinated women (due to age, nationality or whatever) is a more relevant factor and the risk benefit calculations are up for grabs again.

There is also a political issue - driven, I suspect, not by homophobia amongst decision makers so much as the fear of a homophobic frenzy amongst tabloid newspapers and a certain type of parent.

OutsideContextProblem Mon 04-Jun-18 15:56:55

I think that if the Daily Mail have decided they’re playing it as “Cost cutting NHS discriminates by refusing to give boys lifesaving cancer jab!” rather than “Government introduces untested compulsory gay sex jab for all children!” then that may be decisive. Sad but true.

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 15:57:28

I agree, though would think that in itself should be reason not to give a vaccine to those children who are born male and identify as trans girls:
(from DM article)
"New official advice makes clear that transgender girls – that is, those born male – will be offered the Gardasil jab so they fit in with ‘their peers’. "

OutsideContextProblem Mon 04-Jun-18 15:58:20

(By sad, I don’t mean that I’m against a roll out for boys, just that the power of the DM is always depressing).

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 15:59:03

sorry, should have made clear I was agreeing with OutsideContextProblem re complexity of balancing potential benefit/risk

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 16:08:20

OutsideContextProblem
Its a Mail on Sunday campaign.. there are striking differences between it and the Daily Mail.

Some discussed here:
mediatel.co.uk/newsline/2016/12/07/the-unbridgeable-gulf-the-daily-mail-vs-mail-on-sunday/

OhGrrr Mon 04-Jun-18 17:19:19

Absolutely no reason or justification for trans identifying men to receive women's awards.

It makes no sense at all.

TerfsUp Mon 04-Jun-18 18:00:59

It makes no sense at all.

Welcome to the world of TRA demands where none of it makes any sense because it is based on feelings, not logic or reason or biology.

TransplantsArePlants Mon 04-Jun-18 18:11:45

"When there is no low that won't be sunk to in order to justify an ideology you should at least look into it. Except sexism is so much older and so very entrenched that it's easier to dismiss Rachel Dolezal and accept Sophie Cook"

I love that comment

OhGrrr Mon 04-Jun-18 18:20:14

Oh, I know, Terfs. It's just that sometimes it just hits you.

It's as though someone thinks the Jo Cox awards are for 'people who wear dresses' because there's something about dresses specifically that disadvantage people and not that it's about 'women' at all.

WTFareLeadersThinking Mon 04-Jun-18 18:24:00

The young labour WO on the south coast doesn't wear a dress, I normally see that person in a pink hoody.

trumpdump Mon 04-Jun-18 18:27:28

Is it bad that I'd love a Danielle Muscato type character to turn up to one of these things? The picture would be priceless, and probably quite historic!

TERFragetteCity Mon 04-Jun-18 18:32:32

Just goes to show that when you transition you don't stop mansplaining

So true.

Juells Mon 04-Jun-18 18:41:24

What's really sad about that twitter thread on the Jo Cox awards is that none of the actual women are getting any attention, people (men, mostly) are having too much fun making jokey comments like 'isn't that a bloke?' sad

No-one calls them on that, but the handmaids pile in when a woman makes a perfectly reasonable remark, call her a POS and a terf.

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes Mon 04-Jun-18 18:43:12

What is a POS?

Moonkissedlegs Mon 04-Jun-18 18:44:14

The comments on twitter about this are so heartening though. People are finally beginning to see that the Emperor is stark bollock naked.

Juells Mon 04-Jun-18 18:46:14

What is a POS?

Piece of shit

thebewilderness Mon 04-Jun-18 18:51:03

Not satisfied with her death by male violence Labour leadership have decided to humiliate Jo Cox further by giving an award in her name to a transgender identified male.

KathyBeale Mon 04-Jun-18 18:53:13

I just feel so weary that this is essentially another middle-aged white man being rewarded. Like Caitlyn Jenner doing that C4 talk. It’s not diversity or helping minorities or anything like that. It’s just the same.

You know that Who song that says “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”? I keep getting that going round and round in my head.

Sarahconnor1 Mon 04-Jun-18 18:53:41

Juells

Yes and the blokey comments are very much calling a spade a spade, no skirting around issue just very very blunt.

It's all about silencing women. If a women so much as accidentally misgenders there is a pile on , doxxing, Twitter bans.

ChattyLion Mon 04-Jun-18 18:56:33

Is it training being provided or is it political advocacy/lobbying?

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 19:10:09

It's all about silencing women. If a women so much as accidentally misgenders there is a pile on , doxxing, Twitter bans.

Now also shadow bans, see SwearyG's comment:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266050-ManFriday-article-in-the-Daily-Mail

Apparently ManFriday twitter account and other women involved are also shadow banned now too.

MaybeDoctor Mon 04-Jun-18 19:11:13

What a travesty of the original intention of the programme.

The person in question might be a perfectly lovely, meritorious and deserving individual, but they do not belong on that particular programme. Any more than Rachel Dolezal should have been awarded a scholarship for BME students (iirc). A trans-specific programme, yes. A programme for women, who have come up through the education system and workplace as women, no.

NetofLemons Mon 04-Jun-18 19:15:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Juells Mon 04-Jun-18 19:15:57

Now also shadow bans

I saw a remark on that thread about shadow bans, but I don't understand how they work. I could see the tweet.

TransplantsArePlants Mon 04-Jun-18 19:17:30

The comments are extraordinary. It really highlights how little we get away with on here.

Juells

There are some excellent comments from women on there aren't there? Rather akin to the well-reasoned ones we have here

R0wantrees Mon 04-Jun-18 19:20:35

Juells there's an article here which is helpful re shadowbanning:

"Twitter Announces More Shadow Banning For Those Having A ‘Negative Impact’"
(extract)
"When Twitter’s software decides that a certain user is “detract[ing] from the conversation,” all of that user’s tweets will be hidden from search results and public conversations until their reputation improves. And they won’t know that they’re being muted in this way; Twitter says it’s still working on ways to notify people and help them get back into its good graces. In the meantime, their tweets will still be visible to their followers as usual and will still be able to be retweeted by others. They just won’t show up in conversational threads or search results by default…

You’ve heard of Twitter jail? Let’s call this Twitter purgatory.

All of this shadow banning will be handled by an algorithm, meaning who gets banned will depend mostly on the reactions of other people. "

hotair.com/archives/2018/05/15/twitter-announces-shadow-banning-negative-impact/

Kyanite Mon 04-Jun-18 19:21:04

I thought this tweet was excellent

"A graduate of the programme wrote in 2017 “Where once we would have been scared to be viewed as “bossy” or “difficult” because that’s what we had been conditioned to think; we now feel confident in speaking up”. This relates to female socialisation not transwomen"

twitter.com/ClarasBow67/status/1003310963825807361

ChattyLion Mon 04-Jun-18 19:46:03

I didn’t understand the shadowbans thing so I just googled ‘twitter shadowban feminist’:

This came up, with complaints about ‘transphobic’ feminists activity (ie sending some gender critical tweets) being blamed for causing Twitter problems.hmm

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/3kjawb/sex-workers-say-theyre-being-pushed-off-social-media-platforms

thebewilderness Mon 04-Jun-18 20:26:42

It is labour installing transgender identified males as women's officer and giving awards designed for women to transgender identified males that gives the lie to those who claim an all male panel made up of men and transgender identified males cannot happen.
Labour is putting on a demonstration of how to conform to the letter of the law while violating the spirit and all ethical considerations.

BarrackerBarmer Tue 05-Jun-18 11:39:47

Could it be a typo?

It reads 'Jo Cox; more women in leadership' programme

but I think it's meant to be

'Mo' Cocks; no women in leadership' programme

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes Tue 05-Jun-18 15:30:42

'Mo' Cocks; no women in leadership' programme

grin Yes that seems to be the agenda, Brosocialists don't like women.

ChattyLion Tue 05-Jun-18 17:25:55

Barracker grin you should be a proof reader.

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