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Lost language

(32 Posts)
Guadeloupe Thu 24-May-18 16:44:13

Heard today on Woman's Hour:

" that affects the care that can be given to women and to other persons who are pregnant ..."

AncientLights Thu 24-May-18 16:55:02

As it could have been written 'that affects the care given to anyone in pregnancy' or similar, I have to wonder if that construction was intentional to make a point.

DelphiniumBlue Thu 24-May-18 16:57:14

I'd always understood that the potential to be pregnant was one of the defining features of a woman.
If you are pregnant, isn't that evidence that you are a woman? And if you were originally a woman but then transed, wouldn't being pregnant demonstrate that whatever drugs you take or surgery you have, it doesn't stop you from being a woman. And conversely, if you were originally a man, you won't be getting pregnant.
I dunno, the world's a funny place. I was listening to Jonathan Ross talking about how Ronaldhino is getting married to 2 women at once. And thinking if there's 3 people involved, then how is that a valid marriage? It might be something else, a civil contract of some sort maybe, but it's not a marriage .
Definitions change over time. They still need to make sense though.

ToeToToe Thu 24-May-18 17:06:30

Years ago (before all the gender ideology really kicked off) I heard the news headline "the world's first male pregnancy" or "birth" or somesuch - and pricked my ears up, visualising some sort of scenario from Arnie's film 'Junior' - of course it was a transgender man - ie. a woman. I actually rolled my eyes. Woman gives birth is not news.

Never in the history of the universe has anyone other than a biological female given birth.

This nonsense with the language is pissing me right off. Men cannot get pregnant.

RatRolyPoly Thu 24-May-18 17:38:01

And thinking if there's 3 people involved, then how is that a valid marriage? It might be something else, a civil contract of some sort maybe, but it's not a marriage

Can't comment on the pregnancy thing, but your thread's about lost language, so... it's not too long ago that there were religious types on the radio saying how marriage was between a man and a woman, and that anything else could be some sort of "civil contract"; but that "marriage" was taken! Marriage was for all those heterosexual couples, and that any broadening of that would make the very word and concept meaningless.

Thankfully we moved past that.

AncientLights Thu 24-May-18 18:33:25

Once upon a time only women had the potential to get pregnant. And the penis was the male organ. 'The' not 'a'. Now a tiny bunch of nutcases are rewriting biology and language. Well, they can just fuck right off. I will never be persuaded.

thebewilderness Thu 24-May-18 22:58:28

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?

GardenGeek Thu 24-May-18 23:05:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Waddlelikeapenguin Thu 24-May-18 23:16:35

Yep, the more things change the more things stay the same... because mammals cant change sex

ErrolTheDragon Thu 24-May-18 23:25:32

Women's and, er, other persons who do things only women can actually do's, Hour?

ToeToToe Thu 24-May-18 23:29:23

R4 Person's Hour.

How about Non-man's hour? That's got a real ring to it.

biscuit bear envy

VaggieMight Thu 24-May-18 23:30:40

I was telling my sister (who like most people is completely oblivious to what is happening) about how women are affected by transgender ideology. I mentioned that people are being silenced and even Jenni Murray was given a warning for stating facts. My sister said if Woman's Hour is being silenced it's a lost battle. Her comment thoroughly depressed me because sometimes it appears to be that way.

ToeToToe Thu 24-May-18 23:33:06

Meh, we'll keep fighting. Eventually people will come to their senses.

When Matthew Wright and Lowri Turner get it, and are talking about it on weekday mornings on terrestrial TV - we're getting somewhere.

Ereshkigal Thu 24-May-18 23:34:00

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies?


VaggieMight Thu 24-May-18 23:38:06

Agreed, the general public get it. In years to come gender identity will be something your silly grandparents did. It's the blue rinse of the future.

ToeToToe Thu 24-May-18 23:47:35

It's illogical, ideological, totalitarian, oppressive - the ideology is a "belief" that a feeling in your head can be legislated for, and that people can be battered into believing it, and using the Newspeak.

These things never, ever work. Sanity will prevail - eventually - I have no idea how long it will take - but it will. My guess is, it'll come crashing pretty quickly down when it does - and it'll be the medicalisation of children that does it.

VaggieMight Fri 25-May-18 00:06:49

* it'll be the medicalisation of children that does it.*

Yes, and letting children become infertile.

A few years ago a lecturer in ethics said to me that right now there is something happening and accepted by society which will a scandal tomorrow. At the time I was trying to think what it could be, I had no idea that children were being given puberty blockers and being made infertile at an age where they couldn't even consent to getting a tattoo.

Cleveland, Rotherham, forced child migration in the 50s, all at the time considered by professionals as acceptable practice. Sadly it will take time for the children to become adults and be able to speak out.

ToeToToe Fri 25-May-18 00:17:07

God, yes. Your lecturer is so right. But thinking about it, it is frightening how many of those things happen - and take years and years to be uncovered - maybe some are never uncovered at all, or not all that publicly. And always too late - lives have already been ruined. "Oranges and Sunshine" was only uncovered by the work of one social worker - it was completely brushed under the carpet. Magdelene Laundries, Jimmy Saville, so much abuse.

Hopefully, this thing, where we're trying to raise awareness of it as it's happening - will be different.

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 25-May-18 00:20:23

R4 Person's Hour

I misread this as Peterson's Hour - what would all the big brother censoring taking place on here as elsewhere - doublethink in action enabled by lawyers and organisations kowtowing to their PC "masters"- plus JP's word salad and omnipresence fucking everywhere - it made sense to my deliberately addled mind confused

ToeToToe Fri 25-May-18 00:27:05

Peterson's Hour grin

He's right on gender identity and free speech though

<runs away>

ToeToToe Fri 25-May-18 00:34:04

I know FWR has a lot of dislike for the old Peterson - but he's one to listen to on the 'lost language', of course.

We should be concerned about the lost language, but even more concerned about the compelled speech - already "misgendering" (or correct gendering, biologically) is a deletable offence on Mumsnet - and I think, a ban-able offence on Twitter. It's literal violence. (It's not - that's not what literal means - more twisting of language).

Words mean something - they have definitions/applications that evolve - but it should not be enforced.

(I'll get off my soapbox now).

womanformallyknownaswoman Fri 25-May-18 04:24:32

I concur Peterson has some points around free speech and about men needing to grow up - do good problem analysis - it's all the rest of solutions he proposes, his views on women etc where his thinking is limited yet taken by some as gospel

user546425732 Fri 25-May-18 04:42:03

*Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politic*

I think you'll find it's calling having your cake and eating it. Poor little loves are so insecure, unlike women, that they have to cling on to things that they get because they are male. Women don't tend to need those levels of external validation.

TransplantsArePlants Fri 25-May-18 05:07:09

Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics

No I hadn't. Bloody hell - of course they do.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 25-May-18 07:39:11

And for winning women's awards, and (often retrospectively) for being 'the first woman <whatever>'. Of course, other than giving birth there are few 'firsts' likely to be open for transmen to scoop from men.

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