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What will it really take the peak trans the world?

(619 Posts)
Terfing Fri 18-May-18 00:41:43

I think that more and more people hit peak trans every day, but it does seem to be a trickling process. I do often wonder what will cause the dam to burst and the whole thing to explode though? It's clear that people aren't particularly bothered about the infringement on women's rights or safe spaces, so I think it will have to be something that affects either men or children?

Sadly, I think all the lawsuits the NHS will be dealing with in ten years or so may be the final nail in Its coffin. I guess that might be it? But it's a way off just yet?

Koalablue Fri 18-May-18 00:59:56

I agree about lawsuits. When women and kids are sexually assaulted by men taking advantage of the self id laws the lawsuits will come thick and fast.
Also when it really negatively effects men then we'll see change.

PerspicaciaTick Fri 18-May-18 01:07:21

It would be interesting to see if transmen will find a way to challenge men in their own bastions of power and success. At the moment I can't imagine what that might look like in a world which seems to give men every advantage through physical strength or privilege, but I do wonder.

DJLippy Fri 18-May-18 02:14:34

If an incel style terror attack occurs that should do it..

To be honest, many people who are not in power see through all this. It's a top down reform. They haven't been peak transed because they have no idea there is a problem. People who do support GRA do so because they support gay people and they don't want to be thought of as bigots.

loveyouradvice Fri 18-May-18 02:17:28

OP - I think this is the key question.

We are running out of time - what WILL peak trans people to the extent that the law DOES NOT change in this country?

That is the crux.... I had rather foolishly assumed that the media would pick up on some of the ridiculous doublespeak situations that are emerging - like the Girl Guides - or Man Friday.... which they have of course, but it has all been flash in the pan stuff rather than stop and think What does this really mean? What else might it affect? Is this what we want?

And the thing I cannot understand is why there is traction about us being so transphobic as a society rather than traction for hang on a minute, there are other issues we need to consider i.e. conflicting rights....

I had always thought that...
- men would sit up and think, when their daughters were being affected
- women - especially female MPs - would get it as soon as their eyes were opened

How wrong I have been so far....

LaSqrrl Fri 18-May-18 02:24:33

It's clear that people aren't particularly bothered about the infringement on women's rights or safe spaces, so I think it will have to be something that affects either men or children?

In the US, some of the general pushback has been from the rightwing (men and women), as RW men are not happy that this 'initiative' from the left may be infringing on RW men's 'property' (aka wives and daughters).

As for lawsuits, they are a way off yet. Those will mainly come from the 'trans kid regretters' once they grow up and realise what was done to them. Another 15 years maybe?

Terfulike Fri 18-May-18 02:34:31

Given that USA and especially Canadian laws are ahead of ours, we can only look across the water to know that the UKs peak trans moment is a long way off - years not months.

Terfulike Fri 18-May-18 02:39:33

The law suits by kids are a dead cert yes. Just a matter of time. The Intel thing someone mentioned above is an interesting one but unpredictable and undesirable.

It's a great question this op, and it could easily run for months this thread!

I guess the most relevant answer would be something that we could make happen as GC feminists but what?

OlennasWimple Fri 18-May-18 02:43:18

Sport

Ian Huntley

An abuse scandal involving self-ID and the "right" sort of victim (ie white, middle class girls, not like the poor sods in Telford and Rotherham that no-one can give a crap about)

NHS being unable to perform routine surgery because it is spending so much settling botched GRS cases

Frankly, things have got to get worse before they get better sad

Terfulike Fri 18-May-18 02:45:18

We need a historian to tell us about when somewhat similar sudden changes in public opinion have occurred and what caused them.

ChattyLion Fri 18-May-18 02:52:56

what WILL peak trans people to the extent that the law DOES NOT change in this country?.

Parliament changes the law. So it will take the actions of today’s voters in great numbers, who make it crystal clear by writing to their MPs in their own words, about how this is a red line for them and for the many many other people who are not writing in but who are gender critical. And who eg see the need and value of women’s spaces.

MPs also need to hear from voters in great numbers who may support and promote gender stereotypes via eg their religious beliefs. They need to also make the point that as a key part of living and working freely while observing their religious beliefs they also require women’s spaces.

They also need to hear from trans people in great numbers about how gender self ID will not be good for them- like the recent letter in the guardian.

They need to hear from gay and lesbian people about how their sex based preferences are not one and the same as the current self ID agenda, but in fact their identity and consent is being put under pressure by a dogma that says sex based sexual preference is transphobic.

This requires all of us to reach out across political divides to talk about this and not just preach to the converted in our own political or faith community. More in common, etc.

Copperbonnet Fri 18-May-18 02:53:56

They haven't been peak transed because they have no idea there is a problem

^^ This is exactly right.

There was a post on another thread the other day saying that anyone who had concerns was on the wrong side of history and that the majority were supportive of legal changes.

IME the majority of people have NO. IDEA.

No idea about the legal changes in the first place.
No idea about the implications for themselves and for their daughters.

The whole thing is Emperor’s new clothes.

We just have to look out for the moment when someone shouts “he’s naked” loudly enough. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

ChattyLion Fri 18-May-18 02:56:20

And the voices of people who have detransitioned need to be heard by Parliamentarians.

TomMarkle Fri 18-May-18 03:57:30

Men will need to be affected.

Nobody cares about women's rights. Sadly, some women don't care very much either if they think it will compromise their left wing/cool girl credentials.

Starkstaring Fri 18-May-18 06:34:12

Only once we all realise that the core of the problem is the bullying, belittling, and ridicule that people of either sex receive for not complying with the stereotypes assigned to that sex.

OddBoots Fri 18-May-18 06:49:29

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jgrobinson Fri 18-May-18 06:52:20

The European Court of Human Rights has embraced the right to change sex as a fundamental human right. Their position has advanced considerably since the case that forced the UK to pass GRA 2004. The latest case (pertaining to France, 2017) says that it's a violation of human rights to require medical treatment before legal sex change.
www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Gender_identity_ENG.pdf

I suspect the ECHR reflects the current wisdom on human rights, and that the UK's Supreme Court would take the same view.

Therefore while I can envisage a halt to the the extremes of (i) self-identification and (ii) transing young kids, I find hard to imagine how the right to change legal sex can be overturned.

MsMcWoodle Fri 18-May-18 08:53:54

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LaSqrrl Fri 18-May-18 08:55:54

It will get a lot worse before it gets better. That is for sure.

daimbars Fri 18-May-18 09:00:24

What does the world look like once everyone has peak transed?

What would be the ideal outcome?

boatyardblues Fri 18-May-18 09:12:50

What does the world look like once everyone has peak transed?

What would be the ideal outcome?

I would hope we can all have a sensible conversation about doing away with gender (restrictive sex stereotypes) altogether and let people present and express themselves how they want without risk of violence or the need for medical intervention and torturous linguistic contortions. For people with gender dysphoria, we need to treat them with kindness and compassion, but also ask serious questions about why this dysphoria is treated so differently to other, similar conditions (eg anorexia, people who want to remove healthy limbs). Honestly, its all a bit of a mess at the moment.

HotRocker Fri 18-May-18 09:16:40

It would look like a world where every transsexual is open to abuse, but the word transphobia will have been so utterly devalued and undermined, that getting your head kicked in in the street is no longer a hate crime. A massive own goal, I think it’s called, and it’s not fair on the transpeople who aren’t kicking up all this nonsense.
It won’t just be like people think homophobia doesn’t exist anymore because lesbians and gays are accepted in society, it’ll be much worse than that.

Picassospaintbrush Fri 18-May-18 09:24:11

Trump was partially the result of peak identity politics in the USA.

If you read the book Fire and Fury by Michael Wolff, he explains it. The Bannon plan was/is to change to balance of the supreme court in order to commence undoing the Obama legislation. Push back is slowly happening in the USA.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWfwJMvuI9s

Battleax Fri 18-May-18 09:26:19

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LunaTrap Fri 18-May-18 09:27:56

Sport. I noticed a lot of confusion and anger over Laurel Hubbard from people for whom this issue hadn't even been on their radar, especially men. I think it will need to be a big event- a clearly biological man beating Serena or another popular woman in the Wimbledon final might do it.

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