'Misgendering' isn't hate speech, so why is MNHQ acting as though it is?

[leyat]

So the 'Shon Faye hassling Mumsnet' thread was just closed, which was the end result of an account set up to harass Mumsnet users posting on the thread, literally leading to the shutting down of discussion. Awesome.

This idea that it's only hate speech that is being reporting to MNHQ is complete bullshit. So called 'misgendering', naming biology, asserting that gender is not innate etc is not hate speech. We are not breaking any laws, what we are doing is exercising our right to free speech. Absolutely nothing highlighted to MNHQ on Twitter has contained hate speech. The lies need to end. Expecting women to stop naming our reality like this is expecting women to submit to male authority, and all anyone is doing in setting up an account elsewhere to report women on here who refuse to submit to that is harassment.

[Amalfimamma]

Calling a man a man, and a woman a woman isn't illegal.

Threatening to kill, setting mind either accounts to harass, doxx and intimidate is.

Why are MNHQ shutting down legal conversations while pandering to illegal accounts?

Is Capitan birds eye offering them free fish fingers for life Is they get sf of his back? Is sf offering them free tickets and complimentary tissues for his "comedy" shows?

Why are MNHQ throwing women under the bus?

[PermissionToSpeakSir]

I actually felt quite alarmed just as that thread pulled to a close.

[ErrolTheDragon]

all anyone is doing in setting up an account elsewhere to report women on here who refuse to submit to that is harassment.

Yes.. if they just wanted to helpfully report posts which break talk guidelines to MNHQ, by far the easiest way for them, and I would think for MNHQ is just to report them in the usual way using the report button.

(I think the other thread closed because it reached 1k, rather than being shut down per se though?)

[PermissionToSpeakSir]

The harassment orchestrator said this:

"the whole point of the feed was to keep the debate open in ways that did not include hate speech, as a way of reporting to Mumsnet."

Was pretty chilling.

The reversal "to keep the debate open" - a clear back-handed threat - demonstrating an intention to close down.

"ways that do not include hate speech"

There was NO 'hate speech'.

No one was inciting violence.

How low can you set the bar for what constitutes hate speech ffs?

It is slander for her to say that about us.

"as a way of reporting to Mumsnet"

What, so Mumsnet are actually going to be grateful for this shit?

How 'helpful'

[leyat]

Totally; we are not engaging in hate speech here, they are literally deeming speech they don't like as hate speech and MNHQ are encouraging them, but again I hope that is just a lapse in judgement.

I will say sorry to MNHQ if I was wrong about the reason the thread closed (!) again I am fairly new to the site and had no idea there was a post limit per thread. I stand by my free speech comments though, and that the harassment account is trying to control the speech of women, as well as threatening ongoing harassment. They don't get to make up what hate speech is, we are committing no crime here, and I really hope MNHQ understands that trying to curb women's free speech is far more unpleasant, alienating and harmful, than any post referring to biology could ever be.

[KittyPerry77]

No, I don't believe correctly sexing a man who likes to pretend he is a woman is a hate crime (yet).

[UpstartCrow]

This also demonstrates that it is possible to have any kind of gatekeeping with self ID. Mumsnet has no way of knowing if any of the complainants have a GRC or not, unless it is already public knowledge.

''That said, there are peaceful cooperative ways to discuss legal provisions among those that are affected by the laws. Though, to be honest, since the majority of trans people don’t even bother with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) and have been accessing the most appropriate spaces and services to their gender or stage of transition for years, it hasn’t been a ‘problem’ until now. Equally, over half-a-dozen countries have introduced gender self-ID since 2012 to no known problems.''
www.katyjon.com/tag/shon-faye/

[ChickenMe]

No hate crime without an actual crime
"Insulting"was removed from Sec 5 public order act some years ago. It is neither threatening nor abusive to state simple facts that we were all taught in school

And also-What even IS "hate speech"?!? An Americanism? Im not aware of it being a legal term. It is another stick to beat us with and something to shout at us to shut us up!

The terms used in policing/by cps are hate crime (again, no crime=no hate crime) is and hate incident

[FlaviaAlbia]

Yep, the thread reached the 1000 post limit, MNHQ didn't close it. If they had deleted it you'd see a deletion message under the thread title in your "Threads I'm On" page.

You do seem to be leaping to the worst possible conclusions about MNHQ.

[GenderCriticalDad]

My thoughts: gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/some-thoughts-on-mumsnet-and-their.html

"I don't do MumsNet much. I think the world is better for an online space where women can talk without men butting in all the time.

Recently though men have started butting in, have been telling MumsNet what women should be allowed to say. Sadly, MumsNet have paid attention to these men and are deleting posts that state the biologically obvious and the opinions of many women."
......
"The trans activists can be noisy and scary. They have contact in the press and probably in the ternd driven people who work in advertising. So MumsNet try and play nice with them, pay a bit of Dane Geld in the hope their limited attention span will move into the next target.

If the women of MumsNet withdraw their labour, MumsNet will have to pay attention.

If the content flow and pages views went down sharply, even for a day. MumNets would pay attention.

And MumsNet mums, of course have the perfect tool for organising this.

You have the power."

[ErrolTheDragon]

If the content flow and pages views went down sharply, even for a day. MumNets would pay attention.

And MumsNet mums, of course have the perfect tool for organising this.

Hum...I see your drift but I suspect any attempt to organise this would merely result in a proliferation of posts.

[leyat]

@FlaviaAbia I actually think where MNHQ closes the thread they also should say why this has happened, not everyone knows how the site works. And the fact they have deleted posts for really daft stuff over the last two days in order to acquiesce to the very account that started posting and getting responses right before the thread closed, meant that my 'assumption' was entirely rational.

[leyat]

@ChickenMe yup that's the point, we aren't doing anything here that would warrant any form of action against us. We aren't breaking any laws in any way in speaking to biological reality or indeed in anything else we've said that's been posted on twitter in the last few days as egs of 'transphobia'. The idea that because a person running an account on twitter has decided we are engaging in hate speech so that means we must no longer be able to speak freely is utterly egregious.

[Pratchet]

They won't leave mumsnet alone, ever. TRA have infiltrated every single specifically woman-based organisation apart from MN and the million women rise march. They've done this before going after any specifically male based organisation for the specific reason of shutting down female opposition to male control.