Joanna Lumley is terrified for men

[QuentinSummers]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43884163
Can't decide if her quote has been blown out of all proportion by the BBC or if she's genuinely terrified for men's egos, the poor lambs.

I also can't believe this is news.

[SusanBunch]

I am hoping it was just taken out of context and it does seem that overall she supports the metoo movement etc. I guess it's not as bad as some of the comments I have seen from idiots in the past, saying that feminism is literally destroying men etc.

[0phelia]

It's her public NAMALT isn't it, because she supported #MeToo.
I mean we all know namalt but we have to say it everytime we talk about the bad ones or some feelings are hurt.
The terrified bit was just flippant meaning "I feel guilty and I'm worried about the consequences for the men" which again all women have to feel when they call out male sexual entitlement.

Female socialisation in working action!

[DrinkFeckArseGirls]

She said something similar before. Yes, those poor men, only the few harming so many women.

[ReluctantCamper]

BBC blowing a quote up. While I love a bit of Lummers, she's not my go to person when I need educating on feminist theory.

She's a nice posh lady who's made a good life out of being able to act and being beautiful, and good luck to her.

[Wanderabout]

Steve Bannon likes #metoo

This made me reflect on the possible downsides.

There is power in calling things out and raising awareness.

I do think there is something in being cautious about turning the dynamic into all men vs all women.

[DrinkFeckArseGirls]

Saying that she is entitled to her opinion so 🤷🏻‍♀️

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

She's done it before - she's a good libfem in action who feels obliged to advocate for men

[0phelia]

I do think there is something in being cautious about turning the dynamic into all men vs all women

But... but...
It's only men's paranoia and delicate egos that make it about all men when women want to talk about their experiences.
By always having to say Not All Men Are Like That all the time, we are forced into making it about all men when we weren't in the first place.
#MeToo was brilliant at raising awareness that some men, (namely one man HW) are exploitative and many women experienced this. Not all men vs all women.

[MrsUnderwood]

NAMALT also feels like a way to absolve all men of their responsibilities to police their own and address Male violence against women and girls robustly.

“Oh they’re not all violent rapists so it’s not up to them to sort their shit out.”

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

There's an Australian feminist book called Damned Whores and God's Police - it seems like many women become men's police to keep stroppy women in line and protect the menz

[auntycartmanslargertesticle]

Men are complicit with the regime. Even the ones I like. NAMALT is wrong in spirit. Is too bad. For us.

[CritEqual]

Assuming I am very very stupid, can someone explain slowly to me how a non-rapist man is morally responsible for a man who does rape? This is often presented as if it's a self evident truth, but I don't think I've ever uncovered an actual argument that proves it. I'd be grateful for any clarification.

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

"We mustn't deride all men, as only the few are bad and we need to remember that, too."

And the others are complicit in their silence.

[thebewilderness]

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

[Spaghettijumper]

Men are not morally responsible for other men who rape CritEqual. They are however as responsible as women are for creating and maintaining a fair and safe society for everyone. Saying 'not my problem cos I don't rape' is on a basic level shitty behaviour and yet a large proportion of men react that way and the first response of many men to discussions of rape is 'I'm not like that' - totally self centred. Meanwhile women are expected to not go out late, not wear certain clothes, not walk home alone etc to 'prevent rape.' Fuck that.

[thebewilderness]

The "Real Men Don't Rape" and every other "real men" assertion is a No True Scotsman logical fallacy that men use constantly to absolve themselves of responsibility for the culture they maintain and benefit from.

[auntycartmanslargertesticle]

My dh wasn't interested in the strippers at his rugby club dos so served the drinks, so the other men could objectify women. Complicit. Other men watch rape porn become excited and masterbate. Complicit. Yet other men promote the prostitution of women. Complicit. Or maybe just play video games featuring violence against women. And I haven't even touched on the institutional sexism of the police and court system.
If most men did not benefit from violence against women it wouldn't be commonplace.

[WomaninGreen]

auntycartmanslargertesticle - how do feel about that, I mean your DH didn't complain to the club or anything?

Joanna Lumley - after the shit she talked about the Garden Bridge, I'm beginning to wonder what her IQ is.

[CritEqual]

Again I must be hard of thinking today what benefits do non-violent men derive from violence towards women and girls? Are you trying to say all men gain some incremental benefit everytime a woman is raped or assaulted? What form does this benefit take exactly? I can't see that it is anything other than a violation against society itself and that we are all impoverished when it occurs.

I mean just take the murdered two women a week. That's two complete human beings gone, snuffed out. Two lifetimes of experience and other lives touched by their presence gone. That includes men, wether family members, friends or partners. Furthermore I'd say the distinct level of fear of men is a distinct hindrance to non-violent men as opposed to a benefit.

I mean it's a net loss for everyone right? Where is the hidden benefit to men in general?

[SusanBunch]

Again I must be hard of thinking today what benefits do non-violent men derive from violence towards women and girls? Are you trying to say all men gain some incremental benefit everytime a woman is raped or assaulted? What form does this benefit take exactly? I can't see that it is anything other than a violation against society itself and that we are all impoverished when it occurs.

They gain hugely from women being oppressed though. Men earn more money, get better jobs, are less likely to suffer from poverty, and do not have the same burden of care or domestic work.
It is these conditions that enable rape and violence to take hold and continue.
Therefore, while they do not benefit every time a woman is raped, they definitely benefit from the culture in which rape is made easy because of women's lower status.
I don't think individual men can change that though- it needs more radical change at a state level in order to equalise conditions.

[LassWiADelicateAir]

You live in a culture based on the dominance/submission paradigm.
You are swimming in the privilege of being a member of the half of the population that exploits the other half of the population

Are you assuming CritEqual is a man? I don't see anything in posting history to justify that. I thought she made valid points.

[thebewilderness]

Yes, I am. Though it doesn't really matter if they are as oblivious to material reality as they claim.

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

TBH I feel sorry for men...they have been brought up, by unthinking parents and a sick society, to think they should receive lots of lovely gifts on a golden plate...but it doesn't turn out that way!! Mainly because the sad men are utterly inadequate!

Then the sad men, who have not been required to achieve or build talent WHATSOEVER, become ANGRY little men.

Would any one of us here REALLY want to live the existence (that's all it is...it's not a life) of an angry little man?? Not me!! I love being a woman! Yes, it has downsides, but female friendship, the ability to carry and nurture life...it's all priceless and you couldn't pay me to be a man!!

[Italiangreyhound]

I think I agree with that first comment of yours @SusanBunch