Max testosterone level for trans athletes to be halved

[EmpressOfJurisfiction]

Open access link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-athletes-face-tougher-entry-rules-in-female-events-wrrmm7vcz?shareToken=49299dde905a975d619c3b6b581b4b38

[2rebecca]

This is excellent news. Transexual a will still have male physiology, muscle composition and pelvic design advantages but it does a lot to level things

[0phelia]

Well, that's something I guess. Even though men shouldn't actually be competing with women.

[Mogleflop]

Fantastic start for an attempt at equality again - but isn't it also about things like muscle tone, bone length, heart rate and so on? (I admit it's been a while since I researched this one...)

[IStillMissBlockbuster]

Yeah if you read the article you'll see that research is being planned to investigate of trans women retain an advantage over women. A frankly hilarious quote at the end says"it may be that at the end of the process, the muscle remains a male muscle"

[boatyardblues]

It would be good if someone with a Times log in coukd post a fuller description of the injuries Fallon Fox inflicted on Tamika Brent. A broken eye socket doesn’t really do the beating and injuries which endured full justice.

[meditrina]

I am glad that it will apply across the board.

It always seemed a nonsense to me that the established limit (for those whose biology did not match the gender they lived in) should be OK for some, but nit OK for others.

Reducing across the board, inducing for intersex athletes, is a coherent response.

[BossWitch]

That's good. A step in the right direction at least.

[LizzieSiddal]

Fab news to wake up to.

[Ekphrasis]

I want to see how lung capacity advantages a person born male who has transitioned and is taking hormones too as this will impact certain sports eg cycling.

[LizzieSiddal]

“IOC sources confirmed a reduction in maximum testosterone levels from 10 to five nanomoles per litre was “likely” with the release of new scientific findings.“

At last they are taking note of “scientific findings”, but why the actual fuck did they not do that in the first place?

[MNscum]

So how achievable are the new limits for TIMs? I’m hoping not very so they are all prevented from competing.

[Sarkyharky]

"whatever physical advantages transgender athletes have, they are not nearly as large as the sociological disadvantages"

Isn't this kind of missing the point of sport?

[Ekphrasis]

Research on the difference in lung capacity impact on performance in men and women doesn't appear to have been properly done, as most research has been on male subjects only as explored in this research article.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2170830/

If you google a peak flow chart, you can see the physical differences between male and female lung capacity that starts at puberty.

[reallyanotherone]

The sport i coach male physiology makes a massive difference. Not just strength and fat %, but basic skeletal defferences like the way the hip is set in the pelvis. These things can’t be changed...

[Mogleflop]

Ah thanks @IStillMissBlockbuster. I got to the phrase "Harper, who ran marathons in two hours", and my phone won't let the rest load for some reason!

[IdentifiesAsMiddleAged]

SPORTS ALSO DISCUSSED HERE

Worth checking out this thread on MN too

[TerfsUp]

It's a first step in the right direction.

[Bespin]

Generally fair level set on the evidence most transgender competitors easily fall under this level if meeting the other criteria. The 10mml was so high that some men could have just entered without doing anything at all.

[ReluctantCamper]

this is a good start. And planned research to investigate of trans women retain an advantage over women is fantastic news too.

it feels a bit like sanity is starting to prevail.

[ZeroFoxGiven]

I agree with everyone else that this is good but I don't understand why testosterone is treated as the deciding factor. There are so many other biological differences which will not change. I am aware that transwomen will say they are so much weaker than they used to be since taking hormones, but that doesn't mean that they are not still stronger than female athletes.

[SwearyGodPervert]

Exactly Zero

It’s interesting that we’re viewing this as a victory when 5nmol/l is still twice the top of the natural range for women, and testosterone level isn’t the only factor that gives men improved athletic ability.

Because the IOC started with the barmy 10 nmol/l we’re conditioned to think a reduction that is still unachievable for women is a victory. We’re frogs being boiled.

Men shouldn’t compete in women’s sport, no matter how much cosmetic surgery they have or what drugs they take.

I cannot fathom why this is even a fight we have to have. Except that men’s feelings are more important than women’s safety, women’s competitions and anyone’s integrity.

[NotBadConsidering]

I don't think this is positive. As pp have said, it's as if no one medical is remotely involved in these decisions. It's appeasement. Consider the opposite argument: why are the times, distances, heights, speeds etc all better in men's sport compared to women's? If anyone thinks the answer is "the only reason is their testosterone at the time of competing" then they are barking.

As an interesting note, the man who's an arm amputee who won his version of the 100m at the recent Commonwealth Games would have won the able-bodied women's 100m easily.

[Waddlelikeapenguin]

It's a start but i guess they were never going to turn around & so "oopsie we let men into the women's categories".
Fingers crossed the madness will end!
Thanks for the link.

[R0wantrees]

The principle that trans women can compete is still upheld by IOC (albeit with a change in hormone requirements).
The IOC principle that trans women can compete is the founding basis for other sports. If there is no drug test for other competitors due to the level etc, then it would seem likely that the principle of inclusion remains. It would of course be completely discriminatory to blood test some women & not others.
With such a principle established and such a wide umbrella of what it means to be a trans gender woman & unclear situation with regards documents showing sex or gender. Self id to women's sport as seen at this year's Boston Marathon seems inevitable :

[R0wantrees]

Interesting to read in the article today about Liz Truss' support for MN position.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228488-Liz-Truss-MP-breaks-cover-backs-MN

Last night Delia Johnston, the former head of a charity campaigning for trans sportspeople to be allowed to compete in their chosen gender, condemned Ms Truss. Ms Johnston said: ‘She is giving kudos to Mumsnet who are particularly vicious on this particular front. Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’