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ManFriday needs you!

(86 Posts)
SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 11:56:15

After the runaway success of last week and the traction we have in the media (shitty interviews aside, but we'll ignore those) and they're keen to know what we're doing this week, and what would really help us is numbers. I hope that if we get enough companies to pull their self-ID stuff we can then start getting at the places where more vulnerable women will need protecting, possibly not with public activism but with discourse, but I think that might be us getting ahead of ourselves.

The plan for tomorrow is changing rooms. We know that Topshop, Primark, Marks and Spencer and Urban Outfitters have said that anyone who identifies as a woman can enter the women's changing rooms so the opposite will apply.

Clearly, it won't make a huge amount of impact as a single act in a single shop so we need numbers and social media impact to push this one. I can't dare to hope about the success of last week but I think bringing it to the attention of people who don't know who is allowed in their changing rooms has got to have some impact.

So here's what we need to do:

Pick one of the shops listed

Use one of the changing rooms. You could use the men's as it's man Friday or you could be a horrid man perving in the women's instead. Do what you're comfortable with.

Take photos - they can be of you changing, of the gaps around the curtain, of you outside the men's changing room, if you're brave and take a friend they could be of you inside the changing room taken around the curtain or under the door.

Tweet the company and @ManFriday_ and say something along the lines of how great it was to be in whichever changing room and how nice it was to be around all sorts of people in stages of undress. Say how you appreciate that your feelings are being considered as more important than the safety, privacy and dignity of everyone else in there. You can say stuff about vulnerability too, go to town with your 280 characters.

Don't forget to add the hashtag #manfriday

I know it's something little, but it is something most people would be able to do in a lunch hour or small part of their day and the more people we have the better in the media. We will get better press coverage, and therefore maybe companies rethinking their policies with greater numbers.

Swim England have taken down their guidance, silently, we don't know what they're going to do next, but it does feel like if nothing else we've made people think.

If you're concerned that it won't make a difference, remember that people are still talking about this in the national press in a world where we live in a 24 hour news cycle. Just from two women going for a swim.

NoSquirrels Thu 22-Mar-18 12:00:07

Swim England have taken down their guidance, silently, we don't know what they're going to do next, but it does feel like if nothing else we've made people think.

Wow! That’s huge. Well done!

Patodp Thu 22-Mar-18 12:02:08

Love this.

I live near Westfield shopping centre and need to go there anyway.
Great opportunity to make use of Topman, M&S mens dept etc.

AreYouTerfEnough Thu 22-Mar-18 12:03:31

This is a fantastic idea. I’m not on twitter though. Does it have to be twitter?

GeorgeTheHippo Thu 22-Mar-18 12:04:37

If I identify as a man tomorrow and go to try on clothes in the mens changing rooms, should I take clothes from the mens section or the womens?

Patodp Thu 22-Mar-18 12:05:45

Take clothes from the women's George I have some manly bra shopping needing doing.

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 12:07:36

You can do either. By all means take bras to the men's

Twitter is helpful, that's where we hashtag but please share wherever you can (or get a friend to tweet?)

AuntyElle Thu 22-Mar-18 12:07:41

We know that Topshop, Primark, Marks and Spencer and Urban Outfitters have said that anyone who identifies as a woman can enter the women's changing rooms so the opposite will apply.

Are these companies’ statements collated anywhere to quote from?

Testingnamechange1 Thu 22-Mar-18 12:11:55

Excellent. Am not in the UK at the minute but will certainly share/like/comment in newspaper articles etc etc.

DontCisgenderMe Thu 22-Mar-18 12:13:57

Tweet the company and @ManFriday_ and say something along the lines of how great it was to be in whichever changing room and how nice it was to be around all sorts of people in stages of undress. Say how you appreciate that your feelings are being considered as more important than the safety, privacy and dignity of everyone else in there.

Love this wording!

Testingnamechange1 Thu 22-Mar-18 12:16:22

I can only find news items so far. This on Primark:

www.express.co.uk/life-style/style/583724/Primark-official-guidance-transgender-changing-room-use

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 12:19:36

M&S spokesman says use changing room you feel comfortable in Daily Mail

Topshop Telegraph

Pretty much the whole high street covered here Broadly

thenightsky Thu 22-Mar-18 12:24:03

I did this the other week. I tried two bras on in the men's changing room of M&S. Shop assistants didn't bat an eyelid, but the blokes coming out gave me a sideways look, like they wanted to say something, but didn't dare (good).

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 12:28:08

We know the staff won't bat an eyelid. We want to get chatter on twitter and the press. The staff have been told to let us in. Like last week when I told a receptionist that I identify as a man for a swim. I clearly am not one, but she agreed with me and let me in.

If we can get people talking and writing about it maybe the head offices will realise that women aren't happy with penis in the changing rooms.

overmydeadbody Thu 22-Mar-18 12:36:08

I will spread the word. This is great.

AuntyElle Thu 22-Mar-18 12:40:16

Thank you, SwearyG.
I feeling confused again though having read that DM piece. I think ManFriday is a star and I t’s amazing that Swim England have taken down their advice. But is there not a chance of us contributing to normalising a free for all in changing rooms?

FloralCup Thu 22-Mar-18 12:41:01

Do M&S also have the same policy for their toilets? If so, use the 'correct' loo on the way out.

AuntyElle Thu 22-Mar-18 12:41:06

I do realise that concern has been raised before, I’m just perplexed!!

AuntyElle Thu 22-Mar-18 12:43:27

Reading Floral’s suggestion I have just realised that I genuinely wouldn’t like to discomfort any men by barging into their loos. Oh the irony!

Thisisouting Thu 22-Mar-18 12:46:54

I'll be hosting a man-chester meet up if anyone wants to get involved but doesn't want to go it alone. grin

PM for details - you will be checked before I provide any details safety is paramount!

UpstartCrow Thu 22-Mar-18 12:50:16

I am fucking terrified. Is anyone else fucking terrified. grin

Thisisouting Thu 22-Mar-18 12:54:34

I did a recce on the weekend staff didn't bat an eyelid one of the women waiting for her husband gave me major stink eye

Top tip have your leaflets ready to go in an easy to reach place as you go in/ come out so you can hand them one as you go.

Freshlylaidterf Thu 22-Mar-18 12:56:32

Yes me! Going to see if a gc friend will come with me

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 12:57:18

Aunty I don't think so. If we're very female in the men's changing rooms, or show how vulnerable we are to perves with photos round curtains etc then I think we can get the companies to rethink. Making the men uncomfortable is what we have to do. I felt a total douche for making the men uncomfortable (and also lying to the receptionists) last week, but it seems to have got people talking in plain sight, which is what we want, isn't it?

Freshlylaidterf Thu 22-Mar-18 12:58:48

Where do we get leaflets please?

RaininSummer Thu 22-Mar-18 13:05:49

I am not brave enough to do this alone either.

borntobequiet Thu 22-Mar-18 13:12:25

Great. I haven't shopped in M&S for ages, some frill infested monstrosity from Per Una will look good slung over the door in the men's fitting rooms.
Or has Per Una improved? Does it still exist?

olderthanyouthink Thu 22-Mar-18 13:17:07

I have been contemplating using the men's loo but don't actually want to make people too uncomfortable or put myself in danger. I wonder if I could rope my BF in as back up.

donquixotedelamancha Thu 22-Mar-18 13:18:34

@SwearyG
I felt a total douche for making the men uncomfortable (and also lying to the receptionists) last week, but it seems to have got people talking in plain sight, which is what we want, isn't it?

Take it from a bloke, we don't mind. Men don't want this any more than women.

It's clear that both you and Amy have been thoughtful and considerate in the way you've taken direct action. I thought Amy's performance on TV was convincing precisely because it was quiet and measured, but very firm- a huge contrast with most pro self ID campaigners.

I do think trying to make sure that everyone who participates in direct action is respectful is important. A few loons can really sour the argument- as trans activists have found recently.

SweetGrapes Thu 22-Mar-18 13:20:51

I was at my local Primark a couple of days back and the changing room just said "changing rooms". There was no men/women.

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 13:25:14

So show how vulnerable you are in them? Take a photo of how the curtain doesn't cover the gap. You can do this in women's changing rooms as well on Twitter if you're uncomfortable with going into the men's - highlight our vulnerability. You could be a man popping into the ladies for a perve, it's manfriday after all.

Remember we want to highlight how this affects our safety, privacy and dignity.

athingthateveryoneneeds Thu 22-Mar-18 13:29:21

@Thisisouting I'll pm you.

I will be wearing my manly t-shirt!

YesItsADebate Thu 22-Mar-18 13:31:58

I will be joining SwearyG, armed with my iPhone camera, best ‘startled by Sweary being a pervert’ look, leaflets, badge and my purple she-wee for the loos.

Can’t wait! grin

CapnHaddock Thu 22-Mar-18 13:36:35

I will definitely join in - I can pop to M&S tomorrow. Is there a PDF of the leaflet that I can print?

LastGirlOnTheLeft Thu 22-Mar-18 13:52:35

I wish I could do this - I live and work in a little rural town with none of these shops. For any or the campaigns I can do, I will!

ItsuAddict Thu 22-Mar-18 13:56:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BetsyM00 Thu 22-Mar-18 14:40:07

The posters on here that have asked for printable leaflets - I'll pm you a link to a GoogleDoc when I get back from the school run.

It's an A4 sheet with 8 leaflets on it - you'll need to print front and back.

Anyone else wants the link, send me a pm and I'll get to it asap.

BetsyM00 Thu 22-Mar-18 14:41:47

@LastGirlOnTheLeft I'm in the same position so I'm going into men's loos instead. Is that an option, with a male partner in crime?

BlooperReel Thu 22-Mar-18 15:10:10

I have an urban outfitters nearby, challenge accepted!

Testingnamechange1 Thu 22-Mar-18 15:15:38

I would like leaflets too please. And stickers, if anyone has those?

LastGirlOnTheLeft Thu 22-Mar-18 15:22:25

Actually yes Betsy!! We have a small shopping centre near us so I could definitely do that. 👍 I think I might order a T shirt too.

MyBrilliantDisguise Thu 22-Mar-18 15:42:00

I don't think anyone should be taking photos in changing rooms. That wouldn't be allowed by women in a female changing room or vice versa. Everyone deserves their privacy.

SwearyG Thu 22-Mar-18 15:42:58

Only photos of themselves or people they are with, as people often do taking photos to share with friends for opinions.

Beerincomechampagnetastes Thu 22-Mar-18 15:55:32

I have my tshirt, I’m hoping someone can send me a link so I can print off some leaflets?

BetsyM00 Thu 22-Mar-18 17:13:29

Leaflets sent to all that asked smile

CunningOperative Thu 22-Mar-18 17:19:51

@ItsuAddict I'm close to Brent Cross!
Tomorrow we're going to Oxford street for man-fun, but up for it another day

WhyBeDennyDifferent Thu 22-Mar-18 17:25:32

I wonder if there’s a way we could team up for those not so confident? I’m in the NE if anyone wants to team up you can pm me.

hipsterumlaut Thu 22-Mar-18 17:34:26

Interesting idea about identifying as a man and going into the women's changing areas. I wonder if you made it clear you identified as a man while appearing fully female if they would try and kick you out or if they'd say go right in and what the TRAs and the general public would make of that?

MsMcWoodle Thu 22-Mar-18 17:53:23

I can get to Brighton but I'm too scared to go on my own.

BetsyM00 Thu 22-Mar-18 18:11:41

That's the idea hipsterumlaut. Feminine as possible (I believe the term is female bodied self-identified man!) and then if they kick us out we can confirm they are separating changing rooms by sex, which is what we want.

But if they let us in we take our photos and show exactly why it's a bad idea to have let us in. And we want the men in the changing rooms to complain loudly about wanting single-sex spaces.

YesItsADebate Thu 22-Mar-18 18:16:27

Leaflets are online for anyone who wants to print them.

Testingnamechange1 Thu 22-Mar-18 18:50:36

Could we have some leaflets exactly the same but ‘would you want a man in here’ to leave in the women’s?

thenightsky Thu 22-Mar-18 19:02:30

Sorry... just spotted a typo on the single sheet.

The word man is missing.

'That Labour says that a can ‘be’ a woman'

DaisyDrip Thu 22-Mar-18 19:47:33

@WhyBeDennyDifferent I'm in the NE - if you're close enough we could pair. I can't do this week but happy to arrange.

averylongtimeago Thu 22-Mar-18 20:40:32

Am off into our local county town tomorrow to try on some manbras and frilly tops, taking a friend for moral support!

Not done anything like this since the anti nazi league in the 70's.

So many men (DH included grrrr) think this just won't affect them, let's change their minds!

BoreOfWhabylon Thu 22-Mar-18 21:17:01

@YesItsADebate

Typo on the leaflet:

That Labour says that a can ‘be’ a woman simply by saying that he is one? Or vice-versa?

Need a 'man' in there!

YesItsADebate Thu 22-Mar-18 21:19:52

Good spot! Hang on...

ScienceIsTruth Fri 23-Mar-18 08:51:45

I'm in the SE. Not on FB though, but I am on Twitter.

Merchfach Fri 23-Mar-18 09:04:08

Could I have a link to the revised leaflet, please?

Heading for M&S in Cardiff this lunchtime and need to print some up.

SwearyG Fri 23-Mar-18 09:07:01

I think the wonderful tech gurus have updated the link overnight - I can't see a typo in there anymore. (my ability to read things properly is a bit shit though)

Hypermice Fri 23-Mar-18 09:13:06

MEN ONLY CLUBS.

That’s what you need to target. Whites, brooks, boodles, the masons.

Politely, make it clear that you have no intention of taking their men only space away but that this is important

wildduckhunt Fri 23-Mar-18 09:14:43

I showed my DH this - he's always listened to what I've had to say about this sort of stuff, but this has finally PeakTransed him! "Wait, so I could be using a urinal and a woman could just come in and stand around?? Or you could trying on clothes with DD and a guy could just wander in and not be done for a breach of the peace?! That's nuts!"

ShotsFired Fri 23-Mar-18 09:30:08

It's not much, but I have gone public on my FB with the petition link and a couple of sentences about why. I am at some risk professionally, so will see what the temperature of my friends list is like...

SwearyG Fri 23-Mar-18 09:36:06

Absolutely agree, Hypermice but that takes a little more time and planning, lots in the pipeline.

athingthateveryoneneeds Fri 23-Mar-18 10:01:00

Happy to join a men's club.

Merchfach Fri 23-Mar-18 10:33:08

Thanks, Sweary, off to Cardiff with my leaflets now. M&S and then Primark.

Waddlelikeapenguin Fri 23-Mar-18 10:51:12

Cheering you all on flowers

MsMcWoodle Fri 23-Mar-18 11:30:06

Don't have anyone to go with, however I have just sent this email to M&S
Hi
I have always been a huge fan of Marks and Spencer underwear. Never buy it from anywhere else! Unfortunately, the menopause has played havoc with my body. My boobs have grown out of all proportion and I now find myself in dire need of some new bras.
I have time to pop in to one of your stores today, however here’s the problem – although I am a woman, on Fridays I identify as a man. I have heard that M&S has a policy of allowing self-identification of gender with regards to changing rooms – so would I be able to use the men’s changing room?
Please answer asap. I wouldn’t want to offend anyone with my huge ‘moobs’.
Regards

Hypermice Fri 23-Mar-18 11:32:33

Absolutely agree, Hypermice but that takes a little more time and planning, lots in the pipeline.

Totally appreciate that - needs to be done o think with a little more delicacy and thought than many other targets. After all, that’s where the power sits.

Best of luck! You’re doing amazing work

WorriedandTerfy Fri 23-Mar-18 12:04:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

athingthateveryoneneeds Fri 23-Mar-18 13:26:07

@MsMcWoodle just do it. smile The staff have been told to allow it.

MsMcWoodle Fri 23-Mar-18 13:39:00

athingthat My nearest M&S is in Brighton. Don't want to get beaten up.
My letter is my little contribution. Looking forward to getting a response from M&S - maybe it will help to point out the absurdity of the situation.

AuntyElle Fri 23-Mar-18 14:19:26

MsMcWoodle, your contribution has finished me smile

athingthateveryoneneeds Fri 23-Mar-18 14:20:47

Thanks for writing them, MsMcWoodle.

UpstartCrow Fri 23-Mar-18 14:22:00

MsMcWoodle Promise you'll post their response smile

MsMcWoodle Fri 23-Mar-18 14:41:48

And here it is:-
Hello XXX
Thanks for taking the time to get in touch - I hope you're well.
It's great to hear that you've been a huge fan of our underwear. Fitting rooms, whilst usually located in specific product areas such as Womenswear and Menswear, are available for all customers to use.
Our customers can use whichever changing rooms they feel most comfortable using.
I hope this helps.
Thanks again, XXX and I hope you have a lovely weekend!

2rebecca Fri 23-Mar-18 14:46:16

M&S changing rooms have cubicles so opposite sex folk being there not likely to inconvenience the other folk or make them uncomfortable.

MsMcWoodle Fri 23-Mar-18 14:49:12

my response:-
That's great to know!
I am a bit confused though - maybe it's because I've got my 'man brain' on today! - Does the comfort of the other changing room users not matter?

athingthateveryoneneeds Fri 23-Mar-18 14:51:27

M&S changing rooms have cubicles so opposite sex folk being there not likely to inconvenience the other folk or make them uncomfortable.

Not where I went today; big gap in an uncloseable curtianed cubicle.

Cooljazz Fri 23-Mar-18 14:57:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2rebecca Fri 23-Mar-18 14:58:19

Just told my (male) colleagues about this weeks Man Friday escapades. Was the first they'd heard of it (not being very political) . "Brilliant" was their view, mainly because gender self ID was "bloody ridiculous"

thenightsky Fri 23-Mar-18 15:01:51

MsMcWoodle I think you'll be fine in Brighton... don't we have the highest number of petition signers there? wink

picklemepopcorn Fri 23-Mar-18 15:05:43

I'm not in a position to do anything today, but I'll like and share and I've saved the link to the leaflets for next time.

picklemepopcorn Fri 23-Mar-18 15:06:02

And I may peak trans my mother this weekend.

MsMcWoodle Fri 23-Mar-18 15:08:02

cooljazz Crap! Wish I'd have thought about that before I wrote back. Somebody should do it. If I get any more contact, I'll ask.
thenightsky yes, but I'm sure it has the highest number of transexuals and their mates too.

Totalshambles Mon 04-Jun-18 16:56:43

Can someone let me know what the latest is with this and how to join in with plans?

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