I am about to self-ID as a man - the update!

[YesItsADebate]

I have received a written response from the swimming pool that I originally approached as a self-ID man (original thread here), dated last Friday.

Dear […]
We have fully considered your request, taking into account the legal obligations to those who are stating that they are transsexual and our local and national rules and duties to consider your request to join our men only swimming group.

Firstly, as an organisation we do not yet have specific policies in place and are relying on national equality legislation and considered legal challenges. However we will now be looking to put in place fully thought out policies in relation to transsexuals and our leisure facilities, including swimming. We remain committed to the principles of equal opportunities for our customers and will consider all requests relating to transgender on a case by case basis, and in doing so balancing the needs of a particular customer against the reasonable expectations and needs of all other customers.

In relation to your specific request to join our men only swimming session, we feel we are within our rights at this time to turn down your request. We have discussed your own needs and position as to your gender recognition and have considered the object behind single-sex sessions. Our conclusion is that, as present, it would not be appropriate for you to join the men only swimming sessions. However, as per other national swimming association/leisure facilities we would be more than happy to have a transgender only swimming session if there was found to be a local need for such a session.

In relation to access to appropriate toilets, again this will need to be considered on a case by case basis. However, at this time with no specific policy in place we feel that the best option available would be to use the gender neutral toilet ie the accessible toilets.

We would ask that you respect our stated policy on swimming attire, which is that swimmers must wear clothing that is appropriate and modest.

Your Sincerely

[…]
Chief Executive

I would love to know what their objective definition of 'modest' is, but I hope that doesn't become the main point of discussion. I consider this to be a full-on, unmitigated win for women's rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

I will be responding to thank them, writing to my MP to give him the update and asking him to support them and to support #ManFriday in approaching Swim England to discuss.

[athingthateveryoneneeds]

Very interesting. Very.

[NoqontroI]

That's good.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Result!

[ElenOfTheWays]

Ha! Got it in writing now. Well done.

[QuiteLikely5]

I think that’s s great response.

I quite like the idea of trans groups having their own things but then I suppose that could be seen as discrimination

[McTufty]

Good response, well done OP.

Would they have said the same to a self ID transwoman wanting to join the women’s session?

[OohMavis]

Their response would have been entirely different if you were a TIM. Because, boobies.

[Sanderz]

Oh good! "Case by case" seems like a fair solution, I hope it catches on :)

[Collidascope]

Well done, OP. Interesting they seem to be using transsexual and transgender interchangeably.

[PurdysChocolate]

Great, well done OP. I think you are very brave to push the issue like this.

[GrockleBocs]

A separate session? That's terribly TERFy of them :)

[Datun]

Excellent. You showed up the policy, they tightened their rules, in favour of sex segregation. And using the equality act to support them.

Which is exactly what women have been asking for.

[senua]

Oh good! "Case by case" seems like a fair solution.
It does not! I can imagine mtf is one case and ftm is another.

Have you considered offering to write their policy for them, OP?

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Interesting response. Well done OP, you’re doing a great job

[TERFragetteCity]

Brilliant.

[IndominusRex]

Excellent!!!

[PerfPower]

That's brilliant, we're finally hearing from people that don't think one trans persons feelings are more important than hundreds of other peoples feelings. Well done Amy and thank you.

[Mumsnut]

Yep. It would be interesting to test the other side of the equation at his pool ...

[SmurfOrTerf]

Well done.
I hope MP's are watching

[Destinysdaughter]

A v sensible response from them. Well done and thanks for being so brave. 💜

[Beerincomechampagnetastes]

excellent

[olderthanyouthink]

Would it be different for a trans woman attending a women's session because (provided the bottoms fit) there wouldn't be private parts on show, I wonder?

[Freshlylaidterf]

On the face of it seems positive . Although how is ' case by case' basis going to work practically ? I often think a response that includes these words is a bit of a get out.

[CadyHeron]

Yep. It would be interesting to test the other side of the equation at his pool ...

that's what I was thinking! Would they have said that if a man had done it....

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

That is such a sensible response,and given that it took so long I imagine that it was legally checked etc. I hope it becomes a bit of a blueprint.

Are things finally beginning to move in the direction of protecting women?