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Why do transpeople not campaign for unisex facilities?

(66 Posts)
Cerealcomplainer Sat 17-Feb-18 17:59:41

Or do they and I just haven't seen it?

If I was a transwoman with a penis my thoughts would go something like this.

'I don't want to use men's facilities because I don't feel like a man. I understand that some people feel that penises don't belong in the women's. But a unisex facility would mean I could use it and feel like a woman, and nobody who thought I was a man would be bothered I was in there'. Win win, surely?

strawberriesaregood Sat 17-Feb-18 18:02:58

All the trans people I know are doing so. It’s only the tiny percentage of “TRA” types who demand access to female facilities. But TRA gets all the attention due to being so loud and demanding, and the 99% of trans people who are not TRA get ignored.

SnowannaRainbow Sat 17-Feb-18 18:04:17

I understand that some people feel that penises don't belong in the women's

Because the most vocal Transwomen seem to have no understanding of this at all and will shout bigot and issue death threats before attempting to understand why some women have issues with male genitals in female spaces.

Cerealcomplainer Sat 17-Feb-18 18:05:03

Well I could get on board with a unisex campaign. At least everyone knows what they are getting! Do you have links?

JustHooking Sat 17-Feb-18 18:06:02

IMO they cannot stand to see women having anything and it is more about reducing womens rights than fighting for trans rights

grannytomine Sat 17-Feb-18 18:06:03

Suggesting unisex facilities doesn't tend to be well received by many women because we all need "safe" places.

titchy Sat 17-Feb-18 18:06:05

Apparently transwomen are women and therefore entitled to use female facilities. To use gender neutral facilities would mean accepting they are 'other' and therefore not proper women.

Cerealcomplainer Sat 17-Feb-18 18:12:35

Well I would hope that a campaign for unisex facilities would be 'as well as' not 'instead of' so women would still have safe spaces.

BlindYeo Sat 17-Feb-18 18:13:09

TRAs want the validation of using women's toilets. A unisex toilet doesn't cut the mustard validation-wise. A designated trans space is even worse from their point of view because it very clearly signposts that they are not female.

grannytomine Sat 17-Feb-18 18:13:47

What a waste of money, unisex toilets shouldn't need mens and womens as well.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts Sat 17-Feb-18 18:14:01

Because they are a 'lady'.

stitchglitched Sat 17-Feb-18 18:17:07

Because it is more fun for TRAs to see how far they can push women's boundaries and they have found a so called 'progressive' way of doing so. I doubt some of the more vocal, clearly male ones I've seen feel remotely scared about using the men's toilets but they get off on making women feel uncomfortable.

Myunicornfliessideways Sat 17-Feb-18 18:18:12

Main reasons I've seen in TRA social media and literature:

1) because that avoids removing the specific barrier seen as the target to break down. It doesn't give the same validation of 'you are legally a woman, and here you are amongst the other women in a specifically woman's space' (some of the nastier comments include the desire here to see women faced with the invasion of those spaces, an active punishment/domination kind of theme)

2) because of the embarrassment and loss of dignity involved in changing in front of men (I have every sympathy with that, but biological women are not entitled to have those feelings equally validated or indulged, and a third space is fiercely rejected)

mummybear701 Sat 17-Feb-18 18:18:13

All adult TG I know are in favour of gender neutral toilets for the reasons you tried to give.

Cerealcomplainer Sat 17-Feb-18 18:18:21

If a transwoman wants to use women's facilities because she doesn't want to use the mens, I have a degree of sympathy. A unisex facility should deal with that. If she wants to use it, rather than a unisex facility, for validation purposes then I am not terribly sympathetic to that.

But if there is such a campaign, then supporting it and saying so would show trans people some support? And those trans people that didn't want it would have to explain their position more clearly.

Myunicornfliessideways Sat 17-Feb-18 18:19:15

and 3) for some people who would benefit from self ID whether or not they truly identify as trans: if it doesn't involve access to women and power over women's minds and bodies, where's the fun?

OrderOnline Sat 17-Feb-18 18:21:45

They colonize woman and disabled spaces, much easier than fight for your own. Much like pram owners colonised disabled spaces on the bus, rather that fight for their own space. It's what stronger people do to the weaker.

UpstartCrow Sat 17-Feb-18 18:24:37

I'm in favour of 3 spaces, male, female and all inclusive. then people can choose which space suits them.

Trans activists don't support that, they want to remove the right to consent from women.
I haven't heard a single trans rights activist that doesn't turn out to be a male rights activist. Its irrelevant if they claim to be left wing, right or centre. They all use the same thin arguments.
They always out themselves eventually by claiming that treating everyone as though they are identical = equality.

grannytomine Sat 17-Feb-18 18:27:30

Local authorities are closing down toilet facilities in many areas due to expense. Is it likely they can suddenly find the money to have male female and unisex? If we go unisex then it should save money and everyone will benefit.

overnightangel Sat 17-Feb-18 18:29:15

Speaking to a Male friend today and he said “amen who now identity as women seem to think they are entitled to, and have more rights than women who are women”
That’s pretty much spot on i think

vesuvia Sat 17-Feb-18 18:29:40

I think that, for the most vocal and dominant transactivists, the toilets issue for example, seems to not really be about avoiding burst bladders or male violence, it's about validation of womanhood.

Their circular argument is :
Transwomen are women ---> Women use women's facilities ---> Transwomen use women's facilities ---> Transwomen are women.

overnightangel Sat 17-Feb-18 18:29:43

*men not amen obviously

OrderOnline Sat 17-Feb-18 18:30:51

Third space that was fought for by disabled people climbing out of wheelchairs and crawling on the ground is already taken up by disabled people who already share with, pram owners, breastfeeders, baby changers and now you want to shove the camera coathooks, wankers into toilet roll in our space because like the men you don't want them, I think not, they fight for their own space.

OrderOnline Sat 17-Feb-18 18:32:40

Let the disabled people sit outside in excrement, waiting for the TIM and breastfeeder colonizing their hard fought for right to the toilet. hmm

UpstartCrow Sat 17-Feb-18 18:38:06

No, everyone won't benefit from unisex toilets. Where there can only be 2 options make the mens unisex.

Its bad enough having a miscarriage in a shopping centre toilet without being gawped at by a load of men while it happens to you.

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