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Can transgenderism even exist?

(13 Posts)
MrGHardy Tue 13-Feb-18 19:10:45

I was reading a lot of tweets today by different TRAs and (LGB)T posters and something occurred to me. There seems to be contradiction after contradiction within the overall movement. One key point is, does something like transgenderism even exist under self-ID, or am I misunderstanding?

Those people arguing that gender is everything that matters, that you self identify into it, that women have beards and cocks, are essentially saying sex, biology, is irrelevant. Whatever your genes are your DNA does not matter, what you feel in your head, that's your gender. But if that is the case, how can you be transgender. You are not transitioning from one gender to the other (male to female) because sex doesn't exist and your gender was always your gender. At best, you are 'coming out', you are realizing that your gender is different to the gender commonly associated with the physical characteristics of your biology.

But if that is the case, then you should have no reason to want to take hormones or perform surgery. Men have cocks. Women have cocks. Women have breasts, men have breasts. Physical characteristics are irrelevant. And yet that's exactly what many trans people want. That's a clear contradiction.

Additionally, they also argue that there is no mental illness or medical condition to this, which is correct if you say biology is irrelevant. But if there is no medical issue, then there is even more reason to not take hormones or perform surgery. Again a contradiction. Incidentally, there would also be no reason for the NHS to provide this service.

The list of contradictions goes on. If you can just self ID, why would males need to take any hormones, especially T-suppressants, at all to play women's sport? Women is a gendered term. Gender is independent of biology. Although with this one the split reality is that if self ID is really accepted than truly the trans will next push for no hormonal treatment for trans to compete with women.

I think I had some other points but while thinking how to put this in words I lost them. Am I missing something? How can people follow something so inconsistent and contradictory. And how can transgenderism even exist. To me, by it's very own definition it's an oxymoron.

BarrackerBarmer Tue 13-Feb-18 19:18:36

You are of course perfectly correct.
The whole ideology is illogical. It eats itself.
Which is why there is such a shifty, derailing, silencing factor. People know it doesn't bear examination.

On the subject of sports, there are already calls from TRAs to abolish the need to suppress testosterone and just let men compete as women unaltered.

Ginmakesitallok Tue 13-Feb-18 19:20:36

I was thinking along similar lines today. If gender isn't binary, if it's fluid and folk can be all sorts of non binary genders , why do they want to self identify as a binary sex?? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 13-Feb-18 19:23:45

This is why it is so important to get this issue into the mainstream. Most people when they see the actual argument can see how ridiculous the premise is.

SweetGrapes Tue 13-Feb-18 19:26:13

Absolutely. It completely falls apart when you define the terms clearly. Which is why the terminology and meaning changes so fast. It's all smoke and mirrors.

The only part that doesn't fall apart is gender dysphoria.

MrGHardy Tue 13-Feb-18 19:37:58

"I was thinking along similar lines today. If gender isn't binary, if it's fluid and folk can be all sorts of non binary genders , why do they want to self identify as a binary sex?? It makes absolutely no sense at all."

Yes! That is one thing I forgot the spectrum, makes no sense either.

"It completely falls apart when you define the terms clearly."

So we just need this to go to the Supreme Court. There they HAVE to give a definition to it, and once they do, so many things will unravel surely?

TerfsForWomen Tue 13-Feb-18 19:40:28

And why are we "literally killing them" when we say females have periods and men don't, etc etc. Shouldn't make any difference.

BahHumbygge Tue 13-Feb-18 19:48:21

How do transwomen know what it is they're identifying with? Gender is inherently tautological. Yet it must have some external material referent in order to exist and validate itself. It is paradoxical to both have that external referent, and to not be the same class as that referent. Without it, gender is completely meaningless... it can be anything or everything.

It is impossible to have a cis-trans relationship model between sex and gender, as they are of completely different qualities... one is material, the other is ethereal and made up. Unlike stereoisomerism in organic chemistry in which groups of molecules - physical entities - are arranged on either the same side or different side of the functional group.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain Tue 13-Feb-18 20:02:03

It only seems to be children who are expected to medically transition (?)

MrGHardy Tue 13-Feb-18 20:10:08

True! Certainly not grown ass men that are shoving their lady-cock, beard, whatever in people’s faces.

SweetGrapes Tue 13-Feb-18 22:25:36

Indeed Tallulah... demedicalisation for grownups and simultaneously instant medicalisation for children - no questions asked.

Utterly insane.

thebewilderness Tue 13-Feb-18 22:30:28

It is a faith based belief system. That is why it should not be the basis for laws.

mooncuplanding Tue 13-Feb-18 22:32:26

It can only exist if an entire swath of scientific knowledge in the field of biology doesn't exist and they have been making it up all this time.

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