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Self ID is already here, though...

(20 Posts)
athingthateveryoneneeds Mon 12-Feb-18 12:37:40

It's been busy around here recently. I've been reading threads about shops and organisations that already accept self ID TIMs.

Pools
The WI (!!)
Schools (GRC not even applicable to under 18s so this is always self ID)
Women's Aid (under consultation, or is that only for employees?)
Labour Party
LibDems
Green Party
Various shops - topshop and m&s spring to mind
NHS?

I'd be interested in a comprehensive list, of one exists. Please add your knowledge.

TerfyMcTerface Mon 12-Feb-18 12:46:08

This is why the government's review of the GRA needs not only to put self-ID to bed, but to explicitly state that it is a danger to women and children and that it (the government) will ensure that the creeping implementation of self-ID in public spaces is dialled back.

goodyzoe Mon 12-Feb-18 12:51:40

Good thread, thanks. Following...

athingthateveryoneneeds Mon 12-Feb-18 13:02:00

And I'd like to clarify why I only referred to TIMs in my initial post - I haven't seen much (if any) reference to TIFs in these conversations on pre-emptive self ID.

I agree with you Terry - this conversation needs to be had, immediately.

Everyonematters Mon 12-Feb-18 15:09:53

It's not here, these places have guidelines many of which ignore basic safeguarding standards and are being, and need more, challenging. We should add the list to the action thread.

UpstartCrow Mon 12-Feb-18 15:12:31

It is here, gender identification is a protected characteristic from the first GP appointment. Men no longer need to do anything to change their sex.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

7 Gender reassignment
(1)*A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo*, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

KittiesInsane Mon 12-Feb-18 15:19:00

If the protection is for those who 'are planning to change physiological or other attributes of sex', then maybe it should be time-limited, a bit like planning permission or the theory test for your driving licence.

Just 'planning' is so very vague otherwise.

Everyonematters Mon 12-Feb-18 15:20:36

That's not self-Id though that's a protected characteristic.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 12-Feb-18 15:21:28

You forgot girl guides

BarrackerBarmer Mon 12-Feb-18 15:22:19

This is why the law needs strengthening in women's favour.

The law allows exemptions but they are worthless if not applied.

It's like offering organisations the option "you can protect women, or not, your choice, we don't mind"

The default is no sex protection: to use that option an organisation has to proactively choose to invoke the exception and defend it.

I'd like the default to be sex based in specified circumstances and a high bar to clear to justify why not applying this wouldn't have a negative impact on females.

Everyonematters Mon 12-Feb-18 15:25:52

Absolutely Barracker the law has to protect women and girls based on sex. Not changing it to say any man can say he is a woman and legally change sex on his say so would be a good start.

Everyonematters Mon 12-Feb-18 15:27:25

Rethinking the mess a small exception to basic biological in the original GRA has led to would be a good second area of focus.

UpstartCrow Mon 12-Feb-18 15:29:09

Everyonematters

Once a man announces he intends to change sex he has the protected characteristic of transsexual.

For example, crimes committed by Wendy Jones are recorded as having been committed by a woman.
metro.co.uk/2017/07/28/woman-caught-with-extreme-animal-porn-collection-celebrates-after-avoiding-jail-6814335/

Ereshkigal Mon 12-Feb-18 17:27:17

This is why the government's review of the GRA needs not only to put self-ID to bed, but to explicitly state that it is a danger to women and children and that it (the government) will ensure that the creeping implementation of self-ID in public spaces is dialled back.

This, exactly.

Ereshkigal Mon 12-Feb-18 17:28:06

I'd like the default to be sex based in specified circumstances and a high bar to clear to justify why not applying this wouldn't have a negative impact on females.

Absolutely.

athingthateveryoneneeds Mon 12-Feb-18 17:28:59

Pools
The WI (!!)
Schools (GRC not even applicable to under 18s so this is always self ID)
Women's Aid (under consultation, or is that only for employees?)
Labour Party
LibDems
Green Party
Various shops - topshop and m&s spring to mind
NHS?
Girl Guides

mummybear701 Mon 12-Feb-18 17:44:33

One of our local pools has recently ended ladies sessions, don't know if this is the reason but I suspect it will follow through elsewhere. If anyone can declare they are a 'lady' it becomes meaningless. I swim whenever I can but I know some women do prefer single sex sessions.

CecilyNeville Mon 12-Feb-18 18:20:40

Some groups (Stonewall!) promoting trans rights appear to deliberately mislead organisations when giving advice about the nature of the Equality Act and the protected characteristics; the Swim England guidance appears to be case in point.

Because they are told undergoing transition is a protected characteristic, they incorrectly join up the dots, and think that this means 'those undergoing' are therefore able to have access to aspects protected under the characteristic of 'sex'. When it means nothing of the sort. It maddens me daily!

Wanderingwomb Mon 12-Feb-18 20:15:31

How fucking offensive is it that men who commit crimes that are so very rarely committed by women (violent, sexual) are allowed to say they are women and have it recorded thus?

athingthateveryoneneeds Mon 12-Feb-18 22:05:09

Oh, just had a thought - doesn't the Women's Equality Party allow self ID? siiiiiggghhh

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