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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

free manicures and a chat about transphobia for International Women's Day

49 replies

Messagefromyoshimi · 10/02/2018 20:07

A local children's event for Internatiobal Womens Day that I thought I might take DC too - described as exploring stereotyoes with hands on creative activities - includes -

"We’re delighted that the Nail Transphobia nail salon will be in situ, tackling transphobia through nail art – it’s fabulous activism!"

Really? Offering free manicures to children as a way of challenging stereotypes about women?! AIBU to find that really fucking depressing.

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SilverdaleGlen · 10/02/2018 20:09

Ahahahahahaha you actually can't make this shit up seriously.

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 20:15

I'm probably being a bit thick but surely they'd be offering them to all children to challenge the stereotype that painted nails are for girls? Can noone have a manicure then?

Apologies if I'm missing the obvious, I'm feverish.

Fekko · 10/02/2018 20:17

Maybe is was special manicures?

You’ve got to laugh - really.

TERFousBreakdown · 10/02/2018 20:20

Brilliant! It'll fit right in with my skeleton-damaging, trans-friendly all-day stiletto heels event for girls of all sexes!

Fekko · 10/02/2018 20:21

Pole dancing and princess make overs. Maybe a bit of sewing and cake making?

FarmerSee · 10/02/2018 20:22

Sounds fun to me. Lots of boys are now into makeup, hair, fashion and nails. Unless only girls can have a manicure at this Nail Transphobia salon (which I doubt) I genuinely don't understand why it's so laughable or depressing.

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 20:23

Me neither FarmerSee, I'm hoping someone can explain?

Fekko · 10/02/2018 20:25

Maybe because it’s a child targeted activity. The implication these days that if you question some of the more extreme opinions you are transphobic (and this is usually targeted at women).

It’s international women’s day event - not the day for men to claim womanhood.

TERFousBreakdown · 10/02/2018 20:28

Unless only girls can have a manicure at this Nail Transphobia salon (which I doubt) I genuinely don't understand why it's so laughable or depressing

I can't speak for any of the other posters on here, but as for my personal reasons:

It's fucking depressing that International Women's Day, a day meant to remember and agitate for equality for women and girls ...

a) is expressed in terms of everything that makes women not equal, namely an activity centering on the ridiculous beauty regimes women are subjected to, and ...

b) apparently has to include some sort of statement in favour of the interests of people who aren't even fucking women

RatRolyPoly · 10/02/2018 20:29

Ah okay, it's the context; that's a fair objection. I thought it was the specific activity that was laughable, but what's wrong with a manicure? Or cake baking? Or sewing? Craft activities for all I say!

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 20:31

I don't really mind the nail art if it's not specifically marketed at girls. My son likes nail polish.

Perhaps if any children accidentally misgender the technician they will end up with TERF nail art across their fingers

FarmerSee · 10/02/2018 20:32

I'm sorry if I come across as stupid, ignorant or goady, im really not trying to be, I'm happy to be educated if I've misunderstood something or missed the point, but... aren't transgender women, women? They are no longer men, so it's not men claiming International Women's Day. It's women who once upon a time were male, but have since transitioned into a female body to match the female mind they feel they have?

Again I'm not trying rub anyone up the wrong way, please tell me (politely) why I'm wrong to think this?

FarmerSee · 10/02/2018 20:33

Also, what is TERF?

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 20:37

Farmer, very few TW have bottom surgery. Most retain their penises. Women do not have penises. Even if they do have surgery, reference to them being women is a politeness because you do realise people can't actually change sex.

We used to accept TW into women's spaces out of kindness but if you read some of the threads on Fem Chat you will see why this has massively backfired for women and now threatens our own rights under the equality act.

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 20:40

TERF stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. It's a term adopted by trans activists which is essentially used like WITCH to be flung at anyone who doesn't agree a penis can be a female sex organ.

FarmerSee · 10/02/2018 20:50

Thanks OvaHere I've certainly learned something new today. I sincerely thought transgender women were those who were fully transitioned and had undergone full sex change surgery to the genitals. OR were on that path (I understand some have to live as a 'woman' for a certain period of time before they are granted the surgery to change sex organs, is that right?) I hadn't realised that many classed themselves as transgender but still kept the very thing that makes them fundamentally male.

I will certainly read some fem chat threads. Thanks

Everyonematters · 10/02/2018 20:51

This person for example Farmer says they are a transwoman: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2626962-Danielle-Muscato

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 20:52

FarmerSee

From what you wrote, you think transgender means the same as transexual? It really does not. Transgender is a huge umbrella term that does include transsexual people but also drag queens, crossdressers, autogynephiles..and so on.

And transwomen are male. An adult human male is a man. I am happy to play along and pretend that fully transitioned people are women, but they are not really. I will use preferred pronouns and pretend I do not see them as men, to be nice. But this does not apply to fetishists and their ilk, and I will never ever say that a person with a penis is a woman.

OlennasWimple · 10/02/2018 20:56

Farmer - it is very confusing and bewildering! Mostly because as you read stuff you think "surely this can't be happening, it's just a wind up, right?" But no...

The TRansphobia Nailbar reminds me of Legz Akimbo for some reason

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 20:58

No problem Farmer apologies if I was a little blunt. We've had some rather goady individuals on here recently and sometimes it's hard to tell who is just on the wind up.

This thread might be a good place to start

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3162053-if-you-ve-only-recently-peaked

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 20:59

The TRansphobia Nailbar reminds me of Legz Akimbo for some reason grin

Gosh YES.

Messagefromyoshimi · 10/02/2018 21:02

Well isn't a message that painted nails are for everyone rather lost when delivered by a transwoman?

But regardless, if it was any woman offering free manicures and nail art at an IWD event I'd still be seriously fucking disappointed. Unless it was some activity to open up discussion of the expectations placed on girls/women around their looks.

And yes to Terfs point that the event "apparently has to include some sort of statement in favour of the interests of people who aren't even fucking women".

DS has really paid attention to the news about suffragettes, hence thinking this event would be great. I'm disappointed to see this included.

I also can't keep track of what he is learning. He confidently corrected me explaining to his younger sibling boys have a penis but girls have a vagina (I am sticking with vagina because it's what DS1 uses!). Oh no, mummy, lots of girls have penises.

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FarmerSee · 10/02/2018 21:13

From what you wrote, you think transgender means the same as transexual? Yes, I did. My apologies. I truly thought it meant someone who had transitioned from one gender to another, based on hormonal/surgical procedures. I hadn't realised it was an umbrella term which included those who were still actually male.

I'm not goady and I am happy to be educated on things I've been ignorant to. It's certainly given me food for thought and I shall be reading some more on the subject.

Thanks OvaHere no need to apologise. Yoy weren't rude. I'm pleased to have had it explained to me. I'll check out the link you've provided.

"Oh no, mummy, lots of girls have penises."
I find it disturbing children are being taught this. I'm all for teaching children about diversity. But not that lots of girls have penises! Bloody hell

OvaHere · 10/02/2018 21:19

Oh there's plenty for you to read Farmer. You might want a big glass of first though!

You are certainly not alone in thinking that transgender is just like transsexual. It's the position most members of the public take because they don't realise how much has changed. Fortunately some of the issues are making it into some mainstream press now.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 10/02/2018 21:20

No need to apologize, I think most people come into the debate thinking the same, this is why some think we are just being horrible to people who have already suffered a lot. I believe this is why transactivists have so much support, as to many people 'trans' means post op transsexual.

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