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James Kirkup in The Spectator

(30 Posts)
CAAKE Fri 09-Feb-18 08:06:33

A call for debate on self id here - he cites the MN swimming pool change room thread.

MyTerfNeedsRolling Fri 09-Feb-18 08:42:32

First time I've ever agreed or approved of a Spectator article! They must be mellowing grin

FattyCat Fri 09-Feb-18 10:24:08

It's a good article. Balanced and none of the doublespeak rhetoric seen in the guardian and pink news.

I also think it goes to show how badly thought out the changes to the GRA are when they have been criticised in publications as diverse as The Spectator, The Times, New Statesman and the Morning Star!

Everyonematters Fri 09-Feb-18 10:28:10

The Spectator actually is pretty good at including a diverse range of viewpoints. It seems to encourage contributions from people who disagree with each other. Unlike say the Telegraph on Brexit, or Guardian on Trans rights vs women's rights.

SchrodingersFrilledLizard Fri 09-Feb-18 10:33:10

Excellent article.

PerfPower Fri 09-Feb-18 11:39:56

Really good article, especially highlighting the fear that most politicians and journalists have of even discussing self id. I also like that he calls it an orthodoxy.

thornyhousewife Fri 09-Feb-18 12:11:26

I like The Spectator, I appreciate the political breadth of the contributors.

Ekphrasis Fri 09-Feb-18 12:13:35

An excellent article.

I'm also interested to see comments by Dr Finn McKay who I haven't heard of before. Very well set out i think ... I still have to concentrate hard to work out some people's arguments

Ekphrasis Fri 09-Feb-18 12:13:48

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse Fri 09-Feb-18 13:37:11

Good article. Is it me or does he question the appointment of L Madigan?

smellfunny Fri 09-Feb-18 13:54:03

This is the perfect article (I feel) to share on social media in order to raise awareness regarding Gender Self-ID. I feel it is so balanced and nuanced that no-one sane could actually accuse it of being transphobic, and highlights the non-democratic nature of the current discussion on Gender Self-ID.

Please share this article far and wide!

Carriemac Fri 09-Feb-18 14:00:03

reasoned and thoughtful, and fair. well done James

PalmerstonWalrus Fri 09-Feb-18 15:02:42

I am new here and new to the topic. But I know a bit about media buying atc and thought it might be worth saying: The best way to encourage writing like this (and We really should) is to tell the editor in charge that you’ve bought/subscribed to the publication as a result: money talks... so if you want to see more stuff like this, get tweeting to Fraser Nelson Spectator editor @frasernelson

AdaColeman Sat 10-Feb-18 15:19:49

Just giving this a bounce to give more people a chance of reading this excellent article by James Kirkup.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 10-Feb-18 15:45:18

Excellent, thanks for posting OP.

WitchIwasaWitch18 Sat 10-Feb-18 16:55:53

Excellent article

MaybeDoctor Sat 10-Feb-18 17:28:23

I have only recently become fully aware of this issue - thank you to mumsnet- and that explanation was excellent.

As a long term left-of-centre voter, I regret to say that I suspect it is only the right of centre press and politicians who can challenge this orthodoxy —lunacy—

Everyonematters Sat 10-Feb-18 18:16:26

Hi Maybe, welcome. I think at the moment you are right that the biggest room for change is on the conservative side. The Labour Party seem to have lost their senses.

But they need our votes. I think most voters would also challenge the lunacy. I had no idea about the enormity of this issue until recently. No one I have spoken to can believe Corbyn is stupid enough to even suggest this until I explain it to them. Everyone immediately sees the issues when I take the time to explain. Keep telling people, get them to write to their MP setting out their concerns clearly, speak up. None of it makes any sense in the real world.

SmurfOrTerf Sat 10-Feb-18 21:57:46

Excellent article, thanks for sharing

AdultHumanFemale Sat 10-Feb-18 22:17:11

A good read!

MaybeDoctor Sat 10-Feb-18 23:15:52

I think that what bothers me is that women are needing to fight on two fronts:

The gender identity issue
All the usual issues around equal pay, sexual crime, DV, maternity rights.

Still, keeps us busy, eh? hmm

I wonder why that is.

loveyouradvice Sun 11-Feb-18 19:13:16

calm considered and very well worth sharing ... have emailed to DH who Ive just had a blazing row with as he's confident I've got the wrong end of the stick and none of this is happening....

smellfunny Mon 12-Feb-18 10:48:57

Have you guys seen this!!!! Kirkup's follow-up to his original article:

Waddlelikeapenguin Mon 12-Feb-18 10:57:53

Great follow up!
"the very notion of objective truth goes out the window"

AdaColeman Mon 12-Feb-18 11:25:22

Excellent follow up article. Well said James!

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