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In today's dose of WTF is wrong with men (NAMALT)

(44 Posts)
UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 12:38:50

"deepfake"

NAMALT etc but this made me SO ANGRY.

The men quoted in the article have zero care at all what this means for the women.

I KNOW that when my DH friends were younger they would have watched clips like this and laughed over them together.

I would be really keen to hear if anyone has any ideas about why so many men, NAMALT, have so little concern for women?

I have to say that I'm coming around to a way of thinking that lots of men seem to only care about women and girls they personally know and love - which I suppose is why we get all this "it's someone's daughter" stuff - and that women and girls as a sort of global group, mass of people, are a bit 2D and not really worthy of being treated as full people.

I am aware this is strong but this story has made me So Angry.

I can imagine loads of men I know looking up a Kate Middleton "porn" clip for eg just out of interest or for a laugh or for a naughty feeling wank... I know people will come on and say NAMALT but it's a lot of them isn't it.

What I am interested in is WHY so many men see this sort of thing as essentially "harmless"?

Ereshkigal Mon 05-Feb-18 12:41:01

It's horrible OP.

Ereshkigal Mon 05-Feb-18 12:42:11

I have to say that I'm coming around to a way of thinking that lots of men seem to only care about women and girls they personally know and love - which I suppose is why we get all this "it's someone's daughter" stuff - and that women and girls as a sort of global group, mass of people, are a bit 2D and not really worthy of being treated as full people.

YY. Completely agree.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain Mon 05-Feb-18 12:56:12

They're trained from an early age by this rape culture we inhabit to think that women are things

When I look properly at the ways that women are portrayed on tv, in games, in film, in music, in adverts, in actual porn and reflect that men are immersed in this crap from childhood I'm amazed that any of them treat any women properly angry

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 13:13:59

The amount of shit that women are expected to put up with as just being how it is, is monumental.

This article just tipped me over the edge a bit this morning after reading about Uma Thurman and quentin tarantino and also about natalie portman's experiences.

chirpyburbycheapsheep Mon 05-Feb-18 13:30:34

Interesting extract from a paper by Coalition of Feminists for Social Change (COFEM) regarding the trouble with getting men to view women as sisters, mothers etc:

'A recent 16 Days of Activism campaign in Zambia, ‘I care about her’, encourages men to remember that a woman experiencing violence could be their daughter, sister, mother and called on men to be ‘champions’ for women.17 Such an approach is employed to appeal to men as protectors in their capacity as brothers, fathers or husbands, and fails to assert women’s rights as inalienable human rights regardless of their relationship with men. For decades, feminists have invested considerable intellectual and political capital in asserting women’s rights based on justice and equality rather than male largesse.'

theaveragewife Mon 05-Feb-18 13:50:48

It’s disgusting. On Friday I followed a link from another thread to reddit, and somehow stumbled across a thread on there of men posting pornographic pics of their wives and asking other men to describe what they would do to them. That alone was horrific, but some of the responses were so violent and degrading i am still in shock.

Some men really really hate women and see them as animals, I don’t know why or where this behaviour is taught but it’s scary and soul destroying at the same time.

OvaHere Mon 05-Feb-18 13:54:41

I started a thread about this last night, probably a bit late for most people to see it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3159532-DeepFakes-Just-when-you-think-porn-cant-get-much-worse

I was horrified when I read about it. Truly disturbing.

CarefullyDrawnMap Mon 05-Feb-18 14:03:32

YY I completely agree to with the 'sister, mothers, daughters' thing, being problematic, it has always made me uncomfortable - women are people in their own right, as themselves, and valuable as such, not just in respect of their relationship to the men, or other people, in their life, I think.

CarefullyDrawnMap Mon 05-Feb-18 14:04:25

And the other stuff is horrifying, obviously.

NaturalWoman Mon 05-Feb-18 14:08:09

I would be really keen to hear if anyone has any ideas about why so many men, NAMALT, have so little concern for women?

Because we don't matter to them.

They think nothing of manipulating these images because they genuinely don't see women as autonomous beings. We exist purely for their use as entertainment and female emancipation is little more than an inconvenient irritation for most of them.

I keep remembering that quote along the lines of women having no idea just how much men hate us and it's true.

They don't regard us as equal or wish to treat us with repsect.

NaturalWoman Mon 05-Feb-18 14:11:10

Tbh sometimes, I really regret having had children.

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 16:26:06

OvaHere sorry for double posting - I didn't see your thread - will have a read.

I just despair I really do.

I asked DH if he had any ideas but he just looked a bit worried then ran away to work grin

And why doesn't he have answers? We both know his friends would've gleefully looked at these clips in the pub, and had a laugh. The ones who didn't like it would say no I don't want to see but the ones who shared would always keep at it (I have been there when they've done this - years ago 2 girls 1 cup type stuff). This is considered a normal part of young male bonding, from what I've seen). Shouldn't a man who knows how men can be, who knows how they talk and what they do and all of it have at least some explanation as to WHY they are like this?

And the stories - in the media, all over - the stories men tell about themselves. That they are brave, strong, providers, protectors, especially of those who may be less able to protect themselve. But it's bollocks isn't it, these are just stories, men hurt women and children all the time, either up close and personal or from a distance by e.g. watching stuff like this.

I have to come to the conclusion that as a group they not only don't care, they know they don't care, and they actively work to disguise it via a variety of mechanisms - not speaking up, using male controlled media to tell stories of how wonderful they are, protecting each other throughout all sorts of institutions, networks and so on, it just goes on and on.

They say you have to turn the stone over and see the horrible things to make them better - but we keep turning stones at an ever increasing rate and they are busy burying new bigger stones all the time. Or something. This is NEW. This is a NEW way of violating women.

OvaHere Mon 05-Feb-18 16:31:26

No problem, I didn't really say anything you haven't.

I despair too, there really isn't any boundary they won't push to abuse us.

I worry a lot about some of these tech advances. Nobody seems to stop to think just because I can doesn't mean I should.

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 16:36:27

Well women are!

Men aren't.

(Generalisation)

If you asked a group of women "I've got this gay porn video with a man being fucked by 6 big men, would you like to see your fave actor's face on him"? I'm thinking most women would say, erm, that would be a really out of order thing to do. Because we, you know, see men as people.

I think an understanding of others as people and the empathy thing (nature / nurture?) means that even if we'd like to do or see something, we don't necessarily act on it because we understand that the others involved are real people who we don't want to abuse.

Too many men seem to think that what their dick wants their dick must have and to hell with any consequences for anyone else.

OvaHere Mon 05-Feb-18 16:47:45

Yes women generally are more likely to think that way. Unfortunately I'd be very surprised if many (any?) women had involvement in developing these techs.

Another reason why it's so important to make space for more women in tech industries. I can't imagine how unpleasant it must be to work alongside these dudebros though.

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 16:53:17

I just find it baffling.

All this resource being poured into making realistic woman shaped robots to fuck, to make it so that they can watch images of whatever women they want having whatever done to them they want to see.

There's so much in the world that is going on, so much to think about, research, invent, improve, and yet the people with all the resource expend most of their time thinking up ways to give their penises' their hearts desires (not that penises have hearts but YKWIM).

Can't men grow up a bit for fuck's sake and beyond this animalistic urge to take, sunder, abuse, humiliate? I mean this isn't the fucking middle ages nor are we badgers (who are notoriously nasty in matters related to sex). Why do they still see us as toys, or possessions, objects of either lust or hate? Or (as shown in lots of porn and in this new thing) both simultaneously?

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 16:54:03

I mean haven't they got anything better to fucking well do with their time?

Or are women getting all the actual work done while they focus on this shit?

NaturalWoman Mon 05-Feb-18 17:05:44

Why do they still see us as toys, or possessions, objects of either lust or hate? Or (as shown in lots of porn and in this new thing) both simultaneously?

It's the most effective way of dehumanising us. If they dehumanise us we have no Voice.

NaturalWoman Mon 05-Feb-18 17:08:59

Hit post too soon...

If we have no Voice, we can't challenge their Authority. If we can't challenge their Authority, they don't have to consider us or meet our needs. If they don't have to meet our needs, then our needs will be an issue for us and prevent us from participating fully in life. If we are unable to participate fully in life, we are no longer a problem for them.

UpABitLate Mon 05-Feb-18 17:45:18

I think you see this played out at low level in day to day life, the amount of men who get quite aggressive if a "female" challenges them is quite high IME. I mean if you include the ones who just do a put down, or get a bit arsey, as well as the ones who actually get violent / shouty.

Elendon Mon 05-Feb-18 19:01:08

You might want to stay away from Devon.

I put into the google search Man accused of sexual assault on 3 year old.

This was the result. The by lines are horrendous too. If it isn't cows, sheep or dogs a child will do.

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/man-accused-sexually-assaulting-girl-878243

Wait this is what I wanted to post

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nurse-who-filmed-himself-raping-1141202?utm_content=buffer4d432&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

QuentinSummers Mon 05-Feb-18 19:06:21

There's so much in the world that is going on, so much to think about, research, invent, improve, and yet the people with all the resource expend most of their time thinking up ways to give their penises' their hearts desires (not that penises have hearts but YKWIM).
Brilliant

Elendon Mon 05-Feb-18 19:12:57

Man rapes three year old girl and gets his sentence reduced because the three year old girl did not suffer enough.

Women and girls are no longer thought as part of the human race.

Basically.

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 05-Feb-18 19:17:19

What the hell does the (fortunate) fact that the 3 year old girl was not seriously physically harmed have to do with his sentence? Wtf? I actually feel sick that this was a consideration.

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