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Don't leave labour over AWS - stay and fight

(58 Posts)
Chchchchangeabout Tue 23-Jan-18 11:51:07

All those leaving the Labour Party over this - I totally understand why you feel you would want to do this. But surely staying and fighting this is the most impactful way forward? Setting up a group to campaign with facts, reason, case studies against this decision internally would surely have more impact? Staying also retains a voting voice over who gets to be representing the party, in female officer roles and beyond. Each person leaving loses us a voice in the debate.

SwerfyTerfy Tue 23-Jan-18 19:58:24

Hi; I have already left but did attempt to contact not only Jeremy Corbyn but my MP too. Repeatedly, before I finally left. Unfortunately I don't think they want to hear it.

boldlygoingsomewhere Tue 23-Jan-18 20:02:30

Alternatively, Tory party membership is very low - join them instead and, by weight of numbers, change policies there. grin

Chchchchangeabout Tue 23-Jan-18 20:16:20

sad sorry to hear that Swerfy.

Fair enough boldly. I think being in a party and voting so you can affect things is more likely to affect change than not being.

Although having said that I do completely understand why people are leaving Labour over this.

UpstartCrow Tue 23-Jan-18 20:24:06

I've tried to stay, I really have. But my MP is so pro trans its painful. Being called a bigot that needs re-educating for defending women only spaces was the last straw.

I have folded my last leaflet for Labour.

boldlygoingsomewhere Tue 23-Jan-18 20:25:43

I know - I meant it more in the sense of a leftie takeover rather than we should all become Tories.

It saddens me to see what is happening to Labour but it is frustrating not to feel like your voice matters which I think has become the issue.

Chchchchangeabout Tue 23-Jan-18 20:34:34

That's crazy Upstart. Who is your MP?

Boldly, maybe a new party? If someone set one up for remainers who get that women don't have dicks, I'd join.

UpstartCrow Tue 23-Jan-18 20:35:14

If someone started a new Socialist party that was feminist I'd join straight away.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 20:39:21

Where’s your red line though? Your membership or your vote is tacit endorsement of this. If you leave, they want your vote. It’s yours. Not entitled to labour. I left two years ago, and it was the best decision I’ve made. I’ve done more campaigning and work against the Tories AND labour since not being chained to a party, and free to be vocal, and angry. Labour will never change. It’s always been this way. 25 years ago the left was arguing that peadophilia was a social construct, any one recognise that arguement? Fight for policies, not dogma and tribalism. The only way to change labour is to leave. And be able to really hold the bastards to account. Sorry rant there. But GRRRRR. Red lines are red lines, don’t be in a Stockholm relationship with labour. It will never get better. Not one female leader. Not one BAME leader. And trans will be chucked under a bus too. Chat to a few working class people about labour, they ain’t happy.

TheCaptainsCat Tue 23-Jan-18 20:42:45

I'm not a Labour member, but I am a lifelong Labour voter, from a Labour family. I can't vote for them again. I don't know who to vote for - but how can I not vote? Feel so disenfranchised / despondent / angry.

Jozxyqk Tue 23-Jan-18 20:46:35

For the first time in my adult life I thought I'd found a political party that represented me. And now this... no way.

I will defend the rights of transmen and transwomen but not at the expense of any other group. I am so utterly disappointed in Labour over this.

Chchchchangeabout Tue 23-Jan-18 20:47:56

Hammer, that makes a lot of sense.

The thing that bugs me about not being a member of a political party at all though is that the members of one or other of them vote for whoever leads our country. If all the even vaguely sane people leave then the maddest vote for the leader and make the rules. Which leaves the rest of us with a terrible multiple choice question on the ballot paper, with no positive options at all.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:04:23

Seriously, being in a party hinders your activism. I’ve been able to take Corbyn to task on antisemitism, campaign openly on the GRA issue, constantly badger labour about the situation in Iran and why they are failing progressives and women, and backing a dictatorship. You can do more. Being in a party does nothing. Stirring up shit does stuff. I was in a violent abusive relationship for ten years, I know all about not heeding red lines. Finally I broke. Took a lot. Grieved my history and past. Now I’m in the process of rebuilding. Being in labour and leaving is no different. It’s awful, you feel wretched, but you will never change it. It’s been like that since the last Bennite coup. You can do more ass kicking if not in the party. Rather than getting upset about expulsions, just give them the bird. And not your vote. Sorry. Massive rant. Been a really heavy few days.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:05:32

We vote for Who leads the country. The electorate. Labour give no fucks about them. They just rely on our vote out of tribalism. Break free.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:07:26

And stay in contact with the decent MPs. A lot of them support you, and will raise stuff.

irretating Tue 23-Jan-18 21:15:53

I'm staying. There is opposition to self-id in our CLP.

averylongtimeago Tue 23-Jan-18 21:16:03

So if not labour, who to support? I cannot vote Tory, I am not a "non man", the lib dems?
It is very disheartening.

Melamin Tue 23-Jan-18 21:28:57

Not one female leader

I used to help out back in the day but this has been a big sticking point for me over the years. Even with the AWS, they haven't got there.

I would like to vote for labour, but usually I vote for whoever best suits at the time. Funnily enough it has never been conservative hmm. and since I live in a permanently safe seat my vote has never counted for anything anyway

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:33:24

Labour have never had a female leader, never a BAME leader. They are not a progressive party. At all. And look at it now. White, middle class leadership. Overrun with middle class men. We don’t count to them. Never did.

LangCleg Tue 23-Jan-18 21:37:56

Seriously, being in a party hinders your activism.

I am rapidly coming to this conclusion. I think I can do more for women and for people unfairly bearing brunt of austerity outside a political party than inside it.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:41:50

Hey, just a brain fart; how would you guys feel about working across parties with women to get a debate on this started. From your Sun reader, to your Telegraph reader. I’m pretty sure most people don’t know this is happening, and the very real repercussions that we are not allowed to speak about. Lian Huntley anyone?

blackberryfairy Tue 23-Jan-18 21:48:36

I'm a Jewish feminist. There is no place in Labour for me in 2018.

Gacapa Tue 23-Jan-18 21:49:17

I've had the same experience as you Hammer. It's liberating to be free of it all. I used to love the inclusion and safety of comradeship. Until the stifling and backstabbing made me realise I could forge my own activism. Never looked back.

irretating Tue 23-Jan-18 21:52:28

@hammer, this isn't a single party issue. I'd love to work with women across other parties.

Hammerofthetwat Tue 23-Jan-18 21:52:45

Gacapa it’s literally life changing. I don’t fear a Stalinist list or purge. I’m a floating voter, I make election results. You have so much more power when they need your vote, not that you pay them to give it to them. It’s bonkers. It’s almost a cult. And I don’t just mean the cuddly Jeremy people either. I feel like Leah Rimini or something. 😂

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