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Open Plan toilets at school in Liverpool

(39 Posts)
RedToothBrush Mon 22-Jan-18 08:33:26

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/parents-protest-merseyside-st-marys-college-school-privacy-girls-toilets-a8170771.html

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/parents-privacy-fears-after-school-14177392

wtf.

I note they have done the girls first and not the boys.

Is this what is going to happen in the future?

badbadhusky Mon 22-Jan-18 08:46:09

Pictures sent to The Independent show that the toilet cubicle doors are now exposed to an open corridor, and are in clear sight of at least one classroom and a CCTV camera.

Ugh. What an invasion of privacy.

AngelsWithSilverWings Mon 22-Jan-18 08:46:47

I wouldn't like that at all if I were a teenage girl. It's a complete bodge job.

Our local academy was rebuilt recently and the toilets are purpose built so that the loos don't become a place where the kids can hang out. That works much better.

So there is a run of heavy , fully enclosed doors along a corridor and each one is designated male or female and contains one toilet and one sink. Complete privacy for everyone and nowhere for any bullying to take place. It's a great solution.

AutumnalTed Mon 22-Jan-18 08:52:00

In my school we had a cutout in the corridor with a big block. Individual toilet doors along 3 walls, 4th wall being he corridor. Some men’s, some woman’s, some unisex. Each toilet was literally a toilet and a sink. Door opened into this open space if that makes sense. Never even thought anything of it!

AutumnalTed Mon 22-Jan-18 08:52:41

Although they were big heavy doors so no gap underneath and sound proof, unless you’re shouting your mates name trying to find out which loo they’re in so you can grab a tampon 😂😂

chocolateorangeowls Mon 22-Jan-18 08:57:46

My school has done similar for boys and girls toilets but much more discreetly than that. Toilets are a terrible place for bullying to go unseen and problems like hiding from lessons and smoking. It has solved all those problems. This school could have done this much better though.

BeyondThePage Mon 22-Jan-18 09:00:27

Ours were the same at school back in 1960s. (except there were fewer actual toilets)

The main thing they will find is when they do it to the boys toilets the stench in that corridor will be vile! Would not like to be in a nearby classroom!

PocketCoffeeEspresso Mon 22-Jan-18 09:09:07

I think that tackling smoking and bullying might have been a better way to go, because yes, you could smell the boys just walking past them at my school (we didn't have doors, but that kind of obscuring wall arrangement - like they have at shopping centres).. Plus of course, with urinals, there's basically going to be boys with their penises out, in full view of anyone walking by.

I feel like this hasn't been thought through at all.

Lancelottie Mon 22-Jan-18 09:09:34

Oh good grief. So a child coming out after changing a tampon, with bloody hands, has to do the walk of shame to the basins in full view of a CCTV camera?

Has the person who though of this ever been a teenage girl?

TimbuktuTimbuktu Mon 22-Jan-18 09:11:41

I'm pretty sure this is against health and safety regulations. Let me see if I can find it...

LangCleg Mon 22-Jan-18 09:14:03

I see why it's been done but there can be no question of its being acceptable unless doors go from ceiling to floor.

TimbuktuTimbuktu Mon 22-Jan-18 09:25:51

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

The relevant legislation is the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992. Regulation 20, Sanitary conveniences, states:

Suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided at readily accessible places.
Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless -
the rooms containing them are adequately ventilated and lit;
they and the rooms containing them are kept in a clean and orderly condition; and
separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/410294/Advicee_onstandardss_forschooll_premises.pdf

SS Regulation 23A — (1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2), the standard in this paragraph is met if the proprietor ensures that—
a) suitable toilet and washing facilities are provided for the sole use of pupils;
b) separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time; and
c) suitablechangingaccommodationandshowersareprovidedforpupilsaged11 years or over at the start of the school year who receive physical education.
(2) Where separate facilities are provided under sub-paragraph (1) (a) for pupils who are disabled, they may also be used by other pupils, staff, supply staff, volunteers and visitors, whether or not they are disabled.
SPRs Regulation 4 — (1) Subject to paragraph (3), suitable toilet and washing facilities must be provided for the sole use of pupils.
(2) Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over must be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time.
(3) Where separate facilities are provided under paragraph (1) for pupils who are disabled, they may also be used by other pupils, teachers and others employed at the school, and visitors, whether or not they are disabled.
(4) Suitable changing accommodation and showers must be provided for pupils aged 11 years or over at the start of the school year who receive physical education.

Sorry the formatting is a bit off. Haven't got time to edit.

BlindYeo Mon 22-Jan-18 09:52:02

I've been to three schools where the toilets are open to a corridor or foyer and they were fine but this was because the cubicles were completely sealed top and bottom and it felt private and secure. I didn't feel uncomfortable washing my hands in a mixed area but do take a pp's point upthread if you had blood on your hands and the cubicle had run out of toilet paper to clean up. I can't remember if they all had sinks in them or not as well as the communal sinks outside; one school did. I understand it is to reduce bullying and that is a goal I agree with, if it works in practice.

It's unacceptable if the cubicles are not properly sealed top and bottom and I'm also uncomfortable about the CCTV aspect.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 22-Jan-18 09:58:42

Oh god that's awful I'd not be able to use those. Poor girls.

Surely a smoke alarm woykd have just done the trick ffs

This is kinda what I hate abiut the school dd is going to. Theres a wall but no doors and the loos are off a main corridor . Looked to open and exposed with no actual door to the toilet it's not like I'm public loos where there's a longish walk in if it's open.

endofthelinefinally Mon 22-Jan-18 10:04:53

I have been to meeting venues and work places that have individual/ unisex loos in open corridors, BUT, they were all floor to ceiling heavy doors, self contained with sinks, mirrors, suitable bins etc.
That is the only acceptable design for this type of facility.

Elendon Mon 22-Jan-18 10:33:53

At a time when young women are embarrassed to have smear tests this isn't good. Where is the safeguarding?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42747892

Greenglassteacup Mon 22-Jan-18 10:38:00

This is appalling

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 22-Jan-18 10:40:40

As if it's going to stop smoking or bullying anyway. There are plenty of places to do both in school.

guardianfree Mon 22-Jan-18 10:52:53

The shy girl, the girl struggling with heavy periods, the bullied girl, the girl from a religious background where single sex toilets and washing spaces are a prerequisite will all just stop using these facilities. The doors are open above and below and any teenager intent on harassing or bullying can wander in at will. No right to dignity or privacy for the girls in this school.
Anti social behaviour in toilets in schools is a perpetual problem and the solution IS better supervision - but not to the extent of exposing children using the toilets legitimately to the gaze of all.
I'd bet a lot of money that the staff toilets will not be opened up in this way.

SoulStew Mon 22-Jan-18 10:56:14

I'd be telling my daughter to use the staff toilets.

DeleteOrDecay Mon 22-Jan-18 11:14:49

This is awful. They are discussing this on The Wright Stuff now and one of the (female) panelist's said that girls should put up and shut up because there are girls in other countries that don't have toilets at school. Wtf? Since when are 'other countries' a benchmark for our own standards?

Disgusting, I wouldn't be sending my dd if this ever happened at her school.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 22-Jan-18 11:17:04

Other countries don't have clean water either should we make them dig holes in the car park for a drink hmm

MyDcAreMarvel Mon 22-Jan-18 11:18:09

My dd's school is open plan onto the hallway, it is an all girls school though. It works well to prevent bullying, and general pratting about.
My friends dh works at St Mary's college it's very strict there would not be boys loitering outside the toilets.

RedToothBrush Mon 22-Jan-18 11:26:08

My friends dh works at St Mary's college it's very strict there would not be boys loitering outside the toilets.

Yes, so strict, they had a problem in the first place that they could not apparently get a grip on with their apparently strict discipline.

Instead they open up the girls (not boys) toilet in a way that makes the girls feel vulnerable and unsafe. And punishes those girls who were the victims in the first place, as well as the bullies. And of course, any girl who has complained is now set up as the one who made this happen.

Strict, my arse.

This is about they going "Look how far we've gone to stop bullying" to create the illusion of being strict when the reality is, they have no interest in getting to the bottom of the bullying. They just want to look as if they have control of the situation when that couldn't be further from the truth.

And yes, women shut up and be grateful.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest Mon 22-Jan-18 11:38:40

Those toilet cubicles look like they'd fall over in a slight breeze so I can't imagine that they would provide any reassurance at all to girls, plus I understand that there is a security camera pointing directly at the now-open room which is questionable.

If they were that bothered about the situation they would have paid for the toilets to be built as individual rooms with sinks but as they haven't done that, and as they have no plans to do the same to the boys toilets, it's clear that they just don't give a fuck about the female students. I would be very surprised if anyone uses those toilets at all now - I know I bloody wouldn't.

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