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Labour party invents new bollocks made-up non-existent definition for woman

(801 Posts)
pisacake Thu 11-Jan-18 14:29:44

labour.org.uk/members/get-involved/national-youth-elections-2018/

Sixteen uses of the word 'self-defining woman'. Zero uses of 'female', 'biology', or plain 'woman'.

'Woman' is now literally meaningless. A woman can be a bog-standard heterosexual teenage male (Lily Madigan), if he says so.

And obviously with half the places reserved for 'self-defining women' (not 'women', 'self-defining women'), then there's not really any reason why men wouldn't define themselves a women, is there?

If misogynistic shits like Lily Madigan can 'self-define as a woman', well ALL men are women, aren't they?

The whole bloody human race is 'self-defined women'.

Stupid Labour.

gunsandbanjos Thu 11-Jan-18 17:00:29

What an unbelievable pile of shit!

I’m actually speechless.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest Thu 11-Jan-18 17:02:08

Wouldn't it be nice if self defining as a man gave you all the perks? Shame it only seems to work in one direction...

ButFirstTea Thu 11-Jan-18 17:04:40

I mean not all 'biologically' female women MPs support women's issues and lots of socialist male MPs do, ie any who are opposed to austerity etc.

It's quite offensive to say that trans women are men don't you think? I sort of understand the worry that a man who is not trans might use this as a platform although I think the risk of that is small. But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well. I think calling them 'men' cheapens the argument. Trans rights and women's rights are not incompatible (in fact they overlap in that trans women's rights are the same as women's rights...).

LangCleg Thu 11-Jan-18 17:09:30

But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well.

Yes. In the LGBTQ lists, as they already can.

And anyway, on that basis, what about trans men? Don't they deserve representation? Are men being asked to reserve places for trans men? No, of course not.

Women need representation. WOMEN.

53rdWay Thu 11-Jan-18 17:10:43

But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well.

Yes they are real, yes they deserve representation. But if Labour said “okay we’re reserving these other positions for trans people only”, do you think trans people should put up with it if Labour add “and by ‘trans’ all we mean is that you tick this box saying so, we don’t care if you’re trans or not really, we’re fine with non-trans people taking that place”?

Redonionricedpotato Thu 11-Jan-18 17:10:58

Sorry ButFirst but beyond the obvious overlap of trans and women’s rights to safety and dignity then trans women’s needs and rights are totally different to mine as a woman. Our rights stem from our biology - safe abortion, menstruation, childbirth, breastfeeding, all things that do not concern transwomen.

And it doesn’t cheapen the argument to say they are men. It’s simoly stating a fact of biology, a morally neutral truth. They are men.

OlennasWimple Thu 11-Jan-18 17:11:14

But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well

Agreed. I don't like the T being tacked onto LGBT, but there it is and the LGBT officer supposed to represent lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people.

Transwomen are not women is a simple statement of fact. Transwomen are not representative of women, and should not try to be.

AskBasil Thu 11-Jan-18 17:11:51

Fuck them.

That is all.

I won't be voting for them until they stop pretending men are women if they say they are.

Seeingadistance Thu 11-Jan-18 17:14:13

I use the word "woman" to mean adult female human, and "man" to mean adult human male. I can't fucking believe that I keep having to point out this biological reality!

It is not possible to change sex. A man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man.

A trans woman is a man. A trans woman might be a man in a dress, high heels, wearing making up and having long hair. They are still a man. I am a woman in jeans, Docs, no make-up and short hair. I am still a woman.

A trans woman might have had surgery to remove his penis and/or testicles (although that is unlikely as only a very number do that. It's so much easier to tick a box on a LP form, so need to bother with surgery, eh?!). He is still a man. He is still a man in the same way that a man who has lost his penis and/or testicles through illness or accident is still a man. He is still a man in the same way that a woman who has had a mastectomy or a hysterectomy is still a woman.

A trans woman is a man.

ATeardropExplodes Thu 11-Jan-18 17:15:02

Direct debit deleted. Fuck the lot of them.

MephistophelesApprentice Thu 11-Jan-18 17:17:47

Do you think this language is a deliberate choice to appeal to young voters, or a result of the high level of youth participation in the party?

Seeingadistance Thu 11-Jan-18 17:18:55

I sort of understand the worry that a man who is not trans might use this as a platform although I think the risk of that is small.

But it's not their platform. Men shouldn't be on the platform at all. It is intended specifically for women, who have been historically excluded in myriad ways, both directly and indirectly. And now we're not just being excluded, we're being made ... nothing.

UpABitLate Thu 11-Jan-18 17:19:27

Trans womens rights are not the same as women's rights.

Most things that we fight for are related to our biology, how we are treated due to our biology.

Can you explain how you see what trans women need for equality / parity and what women need for equality / parity are the same please.

There is also the small point that loads of cunty-people don't "self define" as women, many are GNC, don't buy into ID politics / genderist ideas etc etc

So where is the representation for those?

Why can't it be places for cunty-women and then places reserved for non-cunty-women and the GNC and trans people and men can all fight over those spaces.

pisacake Thu 11-Jan-18 17:19:47

"It's quite offensive to say that trans women are men don't you think?"

Er, not really? I mean if a bloke wants to have a boob job and what not, then there's nothing wrong with that, it's up to him. But he's still a bloke.

"I sort of understand the worry that a man who is not trans might use this as a platform although I think the risk of that is small. "

It's already happened, see Lily Madigan.

"But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well. "

Well yes, we already have lots of gay male MPs, I don't see trans being a big step from there.

"I think calling them 'men' cheapens the argument. "

It's fact though.

"Trans rights and women's rights are not incompatible (in fact they overlap in that trans women's rights are the same as women's rights...)."

No, transwomen's rights have literally zilch, nothing, nada, rien to do with women's rights.

This is a transwoman:

www.theguardian.com/profile/jane-fae

He is a 'feminist' at the Guardian. He writes exclusively about trans rights. Not about menstruation (how would he?) or abortion rights. But about the right of men to go into women's toilets and so on.

He writes about how we should be able to possess cartoon child abuse images.

www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/28/government_outlaws_pictures/

He wrote a book on child pornography

www.scl.org/articles/3399-book-review-jane-fae-s-taming-the-beast

His rights are men's rights.

This is another transwoman

twitter.com/ZJemptv

He posts pornography of himself on the internet. He is in with all the other transwomen online (look him up on kiwi farms - warning disturbing content)

He posted his glee when a female porn star killed herself after she was told to kill herself for saying that she wouldn't have sex with men with men online.

His rights - telling women to kill themselves, videos of himself masturbating, are men's rights.

Transwomen's rights have NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with women's rights.

Transwomen should have rights, but their rights should not be conflated at all with women. It is like saying that gay men's rights are women's rights. They are not. Gay men want things like being able to have sex in public places without being arrested/entrapped by the police. That's got nothing to do with women, and nor have transwomen.

pisacake Thu 11-Jan-18 17:20:55

sex with men who have sex with men that should say.

Lottapianos Thu 11-Jan-18 17:21:04

'But trans women are a real thing and they deserve representation as well.'

Ok fine. But not by piggy backing on to the hard won representation of actual women. Transwomen and actual women are two different things. Being a woman is not about how you feel, it is a biological reality. It's not a costume that you can put on and take off at will. There is no such thing as a female brain. You cannot be 'a woman trapped in a man's body'. And its highly offensive to actual women to suggest otherwise

UpABitLate Thu 11-Jan-18 17:21:40

I am utterly lol @ this still "(in fact they overlap in that trans women's rights are the same as women's rights...)."

Abortion rights
Contraception
Medical mistreatment of female specific conditions (mesh, endo etc)
Pregnancy and birth care, maternal mortality around the world, fistula
and on and on and on

Elendon Thu 11-Jan-18 17:22:55

Well that's my son out of the elections for the under 19s in the North West.

He's doing Gov and Politics for A Level, is extremely interested in his subject and whilst he is critical of some aspects of the Labour Party, he does feel it's his natural home.

However on reflection, he says he might go Lib Dem now.

DeleteOrDecay Thu 11-Jan-18 17:25:44

Yeah fuck that🖕

Voting labour in my area is a wasted vote anyway.

pisacake Thu 11-Jan-18 17:32:34

or perhaps someone could explain which aspect of transwomen's rights overlaps with women's rights? I mean for example more women in STEM, this starts from school where boys are socialised towards science and girls towards arts. I mean the fuckwits at my DD's school have literally scheduled the art scholarship group at the same time as the science club, so my DD is the only girl doing science (even though she is good at art) and the other girls are working towards art scholarships/.

But transwomen were nearly all boys at school, so benefited from that. So if you promote transwomen as women, then you are encouraging MORE males and discouraging females, because some of the STEM transwomen are really quite disgusting specimens. I mean if you have a stereotypical male nerd on one hand and then a sterotypical male nerd in drag on the other, it's not going to help anyone is it?

So trans rights are in direct opposition to women's rights.

LapdanceShoeshine Thu 11-Jan-18 17:35:24

My sub is paid annually in June so stopping my DD isn't dramatic enough atm dammit.

Have emailed asking how to resign though (& also asking, in passing, why no roles dedicated to the "self-defining men") as - surprisingly - there is no information on the membership page hmm

Fekko Thu 11-Jan-18 17:36:41

As long as you make it perfectly clear why you feel you can no longer be a member then the jobs done.

ButFirstTea Thu 11-Jan-18 17:38:48

Your points only count if you continue think of trans women and men and trans men as women. There should be more trans women in STEM or politics or whatever field, they're currently underrepresented as women are.

I'm really not trying to start a fight. It's upsetting for me to hear people talk about friends of mine like this. I know trans men and women and they've had to fight against devastating prejudice, some of them losing friends and family because of their desire to live as their true selves. I just think it's sad that we can't unite against common and proven enemies of women and progress and instead we turn on each other.

ISaySteadyOn Thu 11-Jan-18 17:40:56

Wasn't there a thread on here suggesting a Woman's Liberation Party? Should we all try to do something along those lines? It is really disheartening to feel there is no one to vote for.

Glitterypinksoap Thu 11-Jan-18 17:41:11

What needs to happen then is women resign en mass, refuse to stand for any women's positions, and let the Labour party present themselves as men in suits and more men currently self identified as women. And nary an xx chromosome in sight.

At that point it's going to be hard for the general public to miss the Emperor running around starkers.

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