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Owen Jones article

(85 Posts)
WiseUpJanetWeiss Fri 15-Dec-17 07:30:58

Not open to comments yet. If it does, maybe an opportunity to state the case?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/trans-backlash-anti-gay-zealotry-section-28-homophobia

cuirderussie Fri 15-Dec-17 07:35:53

I wouldn't bother. He gets tons of reasoned comment from feminists (and quite a few gay men) on Twitter and he just blocks them. I found it revealing the way he said recently that how come younger feminists agreed with him? (Answer: lack of life experience as a woman). But the tone of it was that of a man, gay or straight, who has no use for women when they aren't young, pretty and in agreement with him. He really is a vile misogynist. angry

cuirderussie Fri 15-Dec-17 07:36:52

Having said that, forgive my rant - the Guardian is getting more gender critical these days so it is worth trying.

MrsDustyBusty Fri 15-Dec-17 08:02:48

I like his parody of what worries women. It's clear that he listens carefully when women speak and has the courage to engage honestly with people he doesn't agree with.

Thumbs up, Owen.

doctorcuntybollocks Fri 15-Dec-17 08:05:44

My sarcasm meter just exploded.

53rdWay Fri 15-Dec-17 08:18:08

You’ve mentioned his name! You’ll summon him now, and then he’ll passive-aggressively swipe at us on Twitter and THEN YOU’LL BE SORRY.

(Hey Owen: being a good solid leftist, you’ll know that there’s a long solid tradition of feminists saying they’re giving up on leftist groups and their activism because they’re full of sexist blokes. What’s your theory for why feminists say this? I’m sure it can’t be that we’re right.)

catgirl1976 Fri 15-Dec-17 08:42:21

He's such a fucking twonk

The objections to the current trans agenda are not comparable to homophobia in anyway.

But since he bases an entire argument around 'replace trans with gay' I'm going to write out the trans agenda replacing trans with black.

I identify as black even though I was born white.

I base this on 'feeling black' although I am not able to state what black actually is.

I demand that genetically black people refer to themselves as 'cis black'

If people refer to me as white I will tell them this is literal violence

I refuse to accept that I have had all the privileges associated with being white despite being brought up as white, being observed by everyone around me as white and having social advantages conferred upon me by being white

I will repeat 'trans blacks are black' ad infinitum

When black people say 'hang on - you've got no idea what it's like to be black - you've not experience life as a black person, you've not been racially abused or disadvantaged, you've not grown up in that culture or shared our history' I will tell them they are trans phobic and racist.

I will tell black people they have cis black privilege and will tell them to stop discussing things that disporpotionally affect them as a race such as sickle cell disease, racism etc because it is exclusionary

When I am asked to define what being black means I will boil it down to offensive and out dated stereotypes

I will assert that race is on a spectrum because no one is completely black or white insist this proves you can change race

I will assert that I have actually changed race genetically and biologically because I say so

I will take scholarships and places on committees set up to increase black participation in public life or education and I will take the places from genetically black people and expect to be lauded for it

I will abuse and threaten black people who refuse to accept that I have actually changed race or who say I cannot understand what it is to be black or live that experience

I will refuse to allow black people to debate this or challenge me. If they do I will have them removed from political platforms or their jobs. I will out them on twitter and pressure their employers to fire them

I will insist that black people and white people have different brains

I will reduce the definition of black people to how they behave, what they wear and how they style their hair. If anyone says this is offensive and reductive I will call them racist and have them shut down

I will do all this and claim that I am progressive and anyone who disagrees with me is trans race phobic and I will be told how brave I am

Except I won't because that would be obviously offensive, racist drivel. And yet exactly the same is happening here. Literally all I have done is replace female with black and male with white and sex with race and it's instantly apparent that this is lunacy of the highest order.

WTAFisthisshit Fri 15-Dec-17 08:45:11

The poor child in the photo accompanying the article just reminds me of the quote I saw on twitter recently 'a 10 year old trans is like a vegan cat, we all know where the ideas are coming from.

If as Owen Jones acknowledges the main transphobia is coming from MEN why are little boys not being educated about letting that child in the photo use the boys room in peace?

And why are males more transphobic? Is it because they're aware of the predators in their mist? No male I know has anything against gay men or gender non conforming men but when I told my partner about the GRA he could instantly see what the problems were, he also thinks it will never happen so I shouldn't worry.

I made him watch the interview with LM his instant response was 'we see him, we know what he is, no decent man will ever let him get near a woman or child.

Society always knew the difference between transsexuals, transvestites and sex offenders and treated accordingly, why the hell is this now being fudged.

WTAFisthisshit Fri 15-Dec-17 08:49:08

Excellent post 53rdWay.

When OWEN JONES is summoned by his name being written here does he read the threads and think or does he see there's a thread about him and just start ranting on twitter?

MaidOfStars Fri 15-Dec-17 08:52:25

catgirl Excellent post! Have you shared it elsewhere?

WTAFisthisshit Fri 15-Dec-17 08:54:14

Sorry! I meant catgirls post was excellent!

Sorry 53rdWay blushblushblush

I should perhaps go back to lurking.

SpartonDregs Fri 15-Dec-17 08:56:16

Society always knew

Society always knew which pussies to grab. And them hands ain't filled with ladydick.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Fri 15-Dec-17 08:57:10

He justs rants on Twitter, and then his minions turn up and start chanting 'transwomen are women' over and over again as is stipulated by their cult.

catgirl1976 Fri 15-Dec-17 09:00:19

I haven't shared it Maid - I don't think it's well written enough as I'm just too angry to write coherently although I think it does show how offensive this trans thing is. If I can get my thoughts straight and make the point more clearly I may well share it

NotAgainYoda Fri 15-Dec-17 09:05:11

Catgirl

You should share it.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Fri 15-Dec-17 09:06:12

Wrong side of history, that's right, Owen. People opposed to drugging and sterilising children are going to be on the wrong side of history.
If that's the way history is going I don't want to be on the right side of it, thanks.

LangCleg Fri 15-Dec-17 09:08:10

As Owen knows perfectly well, most of the antagonism directed at trans people by men is plain old-fashioned homophobia, not transphobia or transmisogyny, or whatever new word the pomo left has invented to describe age-old reality. To these men, feminine men and gay men are failed men. I think Owen, as a gay man, likes to distance himself from this unpleasant fact.

As Owen also knows perfectly well, most of the recent flurry of press attention is a tiny blip compared to years of relentless trans propaganda, which has entirely ignored the assault on women's rights and the possible unnecessary medicalisation of GNC kids.

Owen wouldn't know socialism, a political philosophy with a class analysis drawn from material reality, if it got up and slapped him the face with a wet fish.

catgirl1976 Fri 15-Dec-17 09:09:24

I might re-write it when I'm a bit more coherent and then share it.

I just can't get my head around why, particularly the left (which I consider myself to be) are taking something which is homophobic, misogynistic, regressive and oppressive and claiming it to be progressive and brave.

Collidascope Fri 15-Dec-17 09:22:48

Catgirl, great post. It shows the pure lunacy of the movement.

ellaoldie Fri 15-Dec-17 09:24:23

Have been reflecting on comparison with the gay rights movement. We all agree (I assume) that was a positive movement and its activists were "on the right side of history". But even within that movement there was a danger at one point that support had moved into territory which meant gay people could not be questioned. The report into the paedophilic abuse in Islington children's homes in the 80s makes that clear: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/158173/response/382362/attach/4/The%20White%20Report%20redacted.pdf (relevant page is 52). Islington's approach to equal opportunities and ensuring people did not face prejudice due to race, gender or sexual preferences became "overprotection", "positive bias" with serious unintended consequences: it stopped manages acting on allegations of sexual abuse of children in the homes. Put simply, a laudable aim of preventing discrimination morphed into turning a blind eye to child abuse.
An analogy could be drawn with Rotherham and other areas: a laudable aim of preventing race discrimination lead to child abuse allegations being shut down.
It's dangerous for any group or movement to be considered beyond criticism, however victimised or oppressed that group is.

SummerKelly Fri 15-Dec-17 09:29:45

I wonder whether amongst the male left whether there's a difference between what people say publicly and privately - I don't really move in those circles anymore to know. I've spoken to a couple of men who are left but not politically active, and they can see the problems with it but I guess are just not (yet) put into a position where they have to think about it in their day to day lives.

NotTerfNorCis Fri 15-Dec-17 09:31:55

Brilliant post @catgirl1976. This analogy is so fitting but they won't see it. They're obsessed with 'innate gender.

ellaoldie Fri 15-Dec-17 09:34:19

Amongst my circle of friends and colleagues there's a massive difference between what they say publicly and think privately. That's not restricted to the male left. When you have that situation amongst professionals - health staff, social services etc - you have a situation ripe for abuse. As history has shown.

thecompletenonsequitur Fri 15-Dec-17 09:36:26

Good post ellaoldie.

And a note to OJ re the conflation of trans and gay. Gay is a sexuality. Trans is now all sorts of things (see trans umbrella). You can detrans, but you can't degay.

NotBadConsidering Fri 15-Dec-17 09:40:05

I'll be interested to see what happens if it does open for comments. I have a strong suspicion he is allowed to moderate his own articles. I remember an article he wrote on PREP for HIV and perfectly reasonable comments were removed within minutes. It will be the same with this one.

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