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Do men and women commit DV equally?

(47 Posts)
DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 13:55:37

Apparently they do according this this man on twitterconfused. Although I haven't found anything to back up what he is saying, I can't say I spent hours searching. I can always rely on you lot in feminism chat to clarify and make sense of things though.

So is he right or does he just not understand statistics?

ThisllOutMe Wed 13-Dec-17 14:03:54

No, he's not right.

Office for National statistics is the most reliable estimate you will get. bearing in mind that DV is a hugely under-reported crime you can;t really rely on reported crimes etc to get the whole picture. ONS uses interview-based estimates from the Crime Survey which asks people directly if they've experiences particular crimes rather than relying on whether they have reported it.

From the ONS page 'The CSEW estimates that 8.2% of women and 4.0% of men reported experiencing any type of domestic abuse in the last year (that is, partner / ex-partner abuse (non-sexual), family abuse (non-sexual) and sexual assault or stalking carried out by a current or former partner or other family member). This is equivalent to an estimated 1.3 million female victims and 600,000 male victims'

Bear in mind thought that some of the men (and some of the women) will be in same-sex relationships. So not all violence on women is perpetrated by men and vice-versa.

In terms of recorded crimes up to and including homicides, perpetrators are not exclusively, but overwhelmingly, male.

IrkThePurist Wed 13-Dec-17 14:06:04

No they dont.

''In 2009-10, women were the victims of 73% of domestic violence incidents. In 81% of incidents, the offender was male (Home Office, 2011)''
www.refuge.org.uk/files/Statistics-domestic-violence-and-gender.pdf

Popchyk Wed 13-Dec-17 14:09:30

"There are more female victims because of the almost 50% DV rate in the lesbian community".

Really? Half of all lesbian relationships feature domestic violence?

And what about men in same-sex relationships? No violence there?

DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 14:09:50

Thank you both. I knew I had read those stats somewhere irk. Just another mra trying to discount the experience of women I suppose. What's new🙄

LangCleg Wed 13-Dec-17 14:10:14

Karen Ingala Smith's website has an excellent section on this:

kareningalasmith.com/what-about-the-men-special-mens-section/

In particular:

kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/

DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 14:11:19

My thoughts exactly pop. His tweet doesn't even make sense.

He seems to think that because he is disabled and has been raped and assaulted in the past (which of course is awful for him), that this makes him right and everyone else wrong. Even women who have also been raped.

hackmum Wed 13-Dec-17 14:13:08

Karen Ingala Smith is superb, isn't she?

This bit from her site seems crucial: "Women are six times more likely to need medical attention for injuries resulting from violence and are much more likely to be afraid."

It doesn't surprise me that some women shout at or slap their male partners. But the real damage - being knocked out, being hospitalised, being killed - comes from men.

hackmum Wed 13-Dec-17 14:17:05

Also the thing that makes me angry about twats such as the man quoted in the OP is that they know it isn't true. They know there aren't loads of relationships where women are terrorising their male partners, kicking the shit out of them, beating them up, attacking them with heavy objects. Of course they know that. So they're just being provocative - but also sanctimonious, as if they genuinely feel they're making an important point.

Wankers.

Sarahjconnor Wed 13-Dec-17 14:17:47

A word of warning, I went into shock for a few days after reading Karen's site. I couldn't function and tbh it changed my entire life. She's amazing but be warned, it's really shocking once you realise whats actually going on.

MentholBreeze Wed 13-Dec-17 14:22:35

www.gov.scot/Publications/2016/10/2442/334224

Nope.

Incidents with a female victim and a male accused represented 79% of all incidents of domestic abuse in 2015-16 (where gender information was recorded). This percentage share has fallen from 87% over the last ten years. The proportion of incidents with a male victim and female accused (where gender was recorded) has increased from 11% in 2006-07 to 18% in 2015-16

MentholBreeze Wed 13-Dec-17 14:23:30

I did read in a previous scottish survey that the men when questioned later were more likely to say that they had exaggerated the abuse, and that they weren't in fear of their lives.

take from that what you will.

DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 14:25:28

Sent him the refuge link, asked him of Refuge is part of this 'feminist ideology he keeps banging on about, this was his reply:

Yes because it's skewed data. It is not representative of the full facts. It labels certain violence against men differently to move the statistics in women's favour.

Tin foil hat time I think.

LangCleg Wed 13-Dec-17 14:28:42

hackmum - Karen is the best. Utterly indefatigable.

DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 14:29:10

I did read in a previous scottish survey that the men when questioned later were more likely to say that they had exaggerated the abuse, and that they weren't in fear of their lives

I am honestly not surprised.

I'm sure there are men out there who have genuinely feared for their lives at the hands of their female partner, and that is awful. No one should fear for their life because of someone else. But I'm also sure that there are men out there willing to exaggerate the truth. Maybe in a bid to be taken seriously? I don't know.

lunamoth581 Wed 13-Dec-17 14:29:58

He's badly misinterpreting statistics. Lesbians who are abused do report a higher rate of female perpetrators than male perpetrators - but the best statistic I've been able to find is that 67.4% of lesbians living in the US report having only female perpetrators. Which means about a third of abused lesbian women would still have experienced domestic violence at the hands of men.The vast majority of abused heterosexual (98.7%) and bisexual (89.5%) women report only male perpetrators. I would expect that women in intimate relationships with other women would experience a higher percentage of intimate partner violence from female perpetrators than those who do not - unfortunately, yes, women can and do abuse their partners . But the majority of intimate partner violence comes from men, and men are more likely to seriously hurt a woman than the other way around. There's no way domestic violence is 50/50. He's probably also thinking of studies that use the widely panned "conflict tactics scale," which counts hitting your partner and pushing your partner away so they stop screaming in your face as equally abusive.

(All these stats are from the US, where I live; this is what I have right at the moment)

www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

www.google.com/amp/s/finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/faq-but-doesnt-evidence-show-that-women-are-just-as-likely-to-batter-their-partners-as-men/amp/

www.thetaskforce.org/bisexual-women-have-increased-risk-of-intimate-partner-violence-new-cdc-data-shows/

DeleteOrDecay Wed 13-Dec-17 14:36:25

Thanks for the links everyone. I knew he was wrong but I couldn't quite articulate it. I understand it better now.

Yet another man who expects women to sort his problems out for him. It's terrible he was abused, but it's not up to us women to campaign against it. Men need to do that for themselves just like we had to with things like Women's Aid shelters and even the right to vote. We have enough on our plate.

So fed up with men bleating on when women try and discuss the things that affect us.

catwoozle Wed 13-Dec-17 14:42:43

Quite. And remind me how many men are violent criminals compared with women?

Some of the MRAs say that women don't get locked up as much. Obviously we are criminal masterminds getting away with all sorts. hmm

Women can certainly be violent, but the huge problem throughout the world is male violence and criminal activity.

sparechange Wed 13-Dec-17 14:54:17

I've seen threads here before where police officers who specialise in DV victims say it is depressingly common for perpetrators to respond to being arrested by making a counter allegation against their victim which is usually completely groundless but nevertheless gets recorded in crime statistics

MentholBreeze Wed 13-Dec-17 15:11:39

It was studied and determined that no

Scotland did a massive, and thorough study on domestic abuse against men in Scotland
www.gov.scot/Publications/2002/09/15201/9609

This is the page with the stats when they followed up - a more in-depth version than I'd previously read (I may have read for a different year
www.gov.scot/Publications/2002/09/15201/9616

and this is the conclusion from the Executive summary:

Neither abused men's nor service providers' responses suggested that there is presently a need for an agency whose specific remit is to support male victims of domestic abuse in Scotland. Neither does there currently appear to be a need for refuges for abused men, although some male victims would benefit from support and advice regarding housing and welfare. Men who are trying to separate from abusive partners may benefit from the provision of alternative accommodation (for themselves and their children) and better legal and financial support. However, there is some evidence to indicate that abused men are not making full use of the pre-existing support services available to them, perhaps suggesting that some service providers need to publicise their remit more widely.

MiMi78 Wed 13-Dec-17 15:17:37

The stats don't support it.
Neither do the the number of men turning up to Domestic Abuse clinics.
I worked in a DA org for years, and over a number of counties, it was open to both men and women.
I only had 3 male cases in all that time compared with hundreds of women, one was a deluded MRA who complained his wife wasn't jumping when he said how high, who then tried to get me fired when I gave him a dose of reality.
The other two were genuine.
Men would bring the 'why don't you set some refuges etc for men' whine, even in official meetings confused

UnbornMortificado Wed 13-Dec-17 15:27:14

I have no problem believing men lie and exaggerate.

When ex-p broke my collar bone and chucked a Hoover at me in a completely unprovoked drug fuelled attack he told the police I'd started it by chucking things at him.

I hadn't at all I'd been in bed heavily pregnant on supposed bedrest. I wonder if accusations like that (as I have heard similar stories) get taken into account for these statistics.

Fairyflaps Wed 13-Dec-17 15:27:56

When you look at sustained and repeated abuse rather than incidents, the gender differential is even more explicit.
I think it rises to nearly 90% of victims being female, and a similar percentage of perpetrators being male.

BatShite Wed 13-Dec-17 15:43:49

This is up there with the 'women rape as often as, or maybe more than men, just men don't report it' bullshit.

LloydSpinjago Wed 13-Dec-17 15:51:36

I think the problem with crime stats are that they can be skewed to whoever wants to use them.

Domestic violence in my experience is overwhelmingly committed by men. Domestic abuse is a little more 50/50 in reporting but in reality again more likely to be male on female as serious, repeated offending.

As an aside it really isn't helpful that the definition of domestic abuse has been so widely extended and the stats reflect that. An argument between 2 sisters over Facebook? Both the "aggd" and "sus" recorded on police systems. Female victim and suspect for the stats there. In most cases the victim is whoever calls the police first

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