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Tide Turning? Teacher sacked for misgendering a pupil to sue school

(41 Posts)
MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 16:07:20

The Oxford teacher sacked for “misgendering” a pupil is to sue school for constructive dismissal and and discrimination.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42312342]

Said teacher is a man. We have long said on here that men need to get involved in this for any progress to be made.

*:In a letter to the head teacher he wrote: "As a Christian, I do not share your belief in the ideology of transgenderism.
"I do not believe that young children should be encouraged to self-select a 'gender' which may be different from their biological sex.
"Or that everyone at school should adjust their behaviour to accommodate such a 'transition'; or that people should be punished for lack of enthusiasm about it."
The maths teacher, who is also a pastor at the Christ Revelation church in Oxford, said he tried to balance his beliefs with the need to treat the pupil sensitively.
He claimed he did this by avoiding the use of gender-specific pronouns and by referring to the pupil by name.
The state academy school where he was employed did not respond to requests for a comment. It had previously said the matter was confidential.*

Is the tide turning or will this end up classified as a religious story because said teacher is a Christian pastor?

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 16:08:17

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42312342

InfiniteSheldon Mon 11-Dec-17 16:12:12

This is very interesting, until recently I 100% supported anyone rights to use their chosen pronouns , now I am starting to see it as the, admittedly very thin, edge to a wedge that ends in an erosion of our hard won rights and possibly total denial of our actual womanhood.

BlackEyedKid Mon 11-Dec-17 16:15:07

The outcome will be interesting.

Usually religion trumps everything

VivaLeBeaver Mon 11-Dec-17 16:16:19

What I think is crazy about this is that apparently the school are saying the teacher used the child’s preferred name. Which you would think is good? But no, they’re saying the teacher should have used the preferred pronoun and is in trouble for calling the kid by their name. Teacher says he did mistakenly misgender the kid occasionally.

Parents of the kid aren’t even bothered about the alleged misgendering. They say they thought the teacher was picking on the kid, more dentations, etc. That has been disproved. Of course if there’s a suggestion the teacher was picking in the kid for being trans then that’s very bad, but the school have found the teacher not guilty of that themselves.

Obviously there may be more to the story.

LangCleg Mon 11-Dec-17 16:33:29

To be honest, I'm not keen on test cases being based on religious rights to exemptions, as it seems this one will be. It's no more progressive than the transactivist agenda.

I'd love to see a test case based on the falsifiability of gender identity theory. We know the science doesn't support the legislation. Or one based on human rights for women as a sex class as per the UN declaration. Anything but religion.

GuardianLions Mon 11-Dec-17 16:33:54

Shame it is a male teacher and a trans identifying female - perhaps he is just sexist and likes reminding her that she can't identify into male privilege.

I'd like to see trans identifying males (who take the piss) being challenged for insulting and appropriating women... if only..

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 16:37:51

I agree it doesn’t make for a strong test case and equally it could a sexist move on his part - who know? However I wonder if it will bring about wider public debate and more coverage of trans topics from the “other” side? Lots of people have no clue whatsoever that this is going on and would be very surprised that a teacher could be sacked for a slip of the tongue (who knows if that is the full story but that’s how the press is presenting it, largely). This could expose a lot of what is going on with the trans activists.

RancidOldHag Mon 11-Dec-17 16:39:18

I think this would be treated in exactly the same way as a Christian teacher refusing to support homosexual pupils.

Terrylene Mon 11-Dec-17 16:47:32

His resume says he grew up at a mennonite bible camp in Canada.

I am sure they have the best of intentions, but will be hung out to dry.

BrandNewHouse Mon 11-Dec-17 16:50:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Terrylene Mon 11-Dec-17 16:57:12

twitter.com/i/web/status/940191626839851009

www.christianconcern.com/our-concerns/family/christian-family-fear-gender-confused-daughter-will-be-taken-away This looks interesting.

GuardianLions Mon 11-Dec-17 17:36:34

I think this might end up being a 'Christian' story because he says 'As a Christian, I do not share your belief in the ideology of transgenderism.'..

It weakens his point, because its not clear why transgender ideology opposes Christian belief in particular, and emphasising his religious objections could be seen more as a stepping stone to legally opposing homosexuality.

He could have just said he doesn't believe in the ideology of transgenderism and doesn't believe that young children should be encouraged to self-select a 'gender' which may be different from their biological sex, or that everyone at school should adjust their behaviour to accommodate such a 'transition'; or that people should be punished for lack of enthusiasm about it.

All perfectly acceptable and defending this position would make it more of a landmark imo.

Cancerisacunt Mon 11-Dec-17 17:40:44

He’s a fundamentalist Christian. I wouldn’t be pinning your hopes on him as an Allie.

Ereshkigal Mon 11-Dec-17 18:50:16

I'd love to see a test case based on the falsifiability of gender identity theory. We know the science doesn't support the legislation. Or one based on human rights for women as a sex class as per the UN declaration.

Yes yes yes.

wildbluebelles Mon 11-Dec-17 18:54:16

Agree with others. This man is not your ally. He flat out refused to use the preferred pronouns of a teenager. Regardless of what you feel about the trans agenda, that is a matter of common decency and manners.
He is in no way fighting for the rights of women. He is fighting on the basis that God says it is wrong for girls to dress as boys and want to be known as boys. I saw him on This Morning and he is also anti-gay and was with some lady who said being gay was harmful and could be cured through prayer. I believe she heads the organisation paying his legal fees.
So from me, it's a no. Happy for the existing laws to remain where someone can be diagnosed as suffering gender dysphoria and acquire a gender recognition certificate after a period of time. I do not believe the law needs to be extended.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 19:00:44

Yes I hadn’t seen quite how hardline his views and opinions were.

I hope now he isn’t taken as the leader of gender critical views.

I do still wonder if it will stir up more public. awareness

Datun Mon 11-Dec-17 19:04:09

Terrylene

Your second link is horrifying. Although the parents in question are Christian, that does not seem to be the basis on which they are objecting.

They think their daughter is mentally unwell. Plus she hasn’t even had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. And they are being threatened with her being taken into foster care.

For God’s sake. This is beyond belief.

GuardianLions Mon 11-Dec-17 19:14:04

Yes - it is bizarre how the social workers seem to be brainwashing the child, and awful that the parents could lose her because of it - without considering the hormones/surgery route that that it will lead. Reminds me of the Cleveland child scandal.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 19:23:20

And yes Terry that story in the second link is utterly horrifying. That poor family.

wherethevioletsgrow Mon 11-Dec-17 19:35:47

And yes Terry that story in the second link is utterly horrifying. That poor family

That is a difficult case though because the teenager is obviously deeply troubled and has expressed a genuine desire for her family to use her chosen name which they categorically refuse to do. A lot of the research shows that teens who express identification with the opposite sex often grow into gay adults. This may be the case here. Interestingly, the website it comes from is the same organisation that is supporting this teacher. They have very hardline views on homosexuality as well as transgenderism. As I said above, the head of the organisation believes that gay people can be 'cured'. It could be that this poor teenager is struggling with her sexuality which her parents may not be accepting of either, given their faith. I wouldn't blindly say that 'parents know best' here and I am sure social workers are not taking removal lightly.

That is the problem when bigots and religious zealots are the ones who seemingly 'support' the feminist concerns over the trans movement. I do think that we need to distance ourselves from them- they are just as harmful and intolerant.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 19:39:07

where

I mean the whole family, including the teen.
Whatever their outcome of SS involvement their beliefs are likely to come into conflict with their daughter’s and they will all face turbulent times ahead.

Terrylene Mon 11-Dec-17 19:55:04

christianconcern.com/our-issues/family-and-sexual-ethics

From the above and the previous link, they do seem to have some knowledge of the issues involved and should know what they are doing.

It is indeed the organisation that is supporting the teacher (and others previously). I am sure that they have not been successful with other cases from what I remember. If they stick to the points of law it would be ok, but they always bring in their motivation.............and eyes glaze over and it provides material for the other side.

The Canadian Mennonites (where he grew up) seem to be more involved with community work and social issues and mental health than other similar groups, from their work during WW2 when they were conscientious objectors.

So, potentially, they could put up a good fight. But not from the same perspective as feminists. Worth watching though.

wherethevioletsgrow Mon 11-Dec-17 20:28:11

Sorry, I just cannot in any way get on board with an organisation that claims it is fundamentally wrong to be gay. I think any vaguely liberal people will take whatever they back with a pinch of salt. It will simply associate caution over trans-rights with religious bigotry. It will harm the feminist agenda.

I also do not believe that his religious beliefs should entitle him to cause distress to a teenager. He can keep them to himself. If he had made comments about homosexuality, we would not be having this conversation. It just so happens that it intersects with a feminist agenda.

MakeMisogynyAHateCrime Mon 11-Dec-17 21:13:04

Yes it won’t be from the same perspective as us in this subforum.

The original article didn’t mention his history and the beliefs of his denomination so I want to make it clear I was mistaken in my original post. I abhor his homophobia etc. and mistook him as a teacher who was perhaps slightly bolshy and maybe gender critical.

I apologise.

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