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I am meeting my MP on Friday!

(46 Posts)
MacaroonMama Wed 06-Dec-17 14:16:24

Any words of wisdom? He replied to my letter, seems genuinely concerned but a bit ignorant of the wider ramifications of accepting changes to the Gender ID Bill.

I will print off the sage guide as it is so clear. Then I will bring up:

Prisons (this is an interest of his)
Hospitals/care homes
Rape crisis centres/refuges (with examples of where this has gone wrong in other countries)
Children - the risks of puberty blockers
The gaping lack of science behind any of this
The whole if Lily Madigan can be a women's officer then in theory all women's officers could be men thing (I will not get personal about her, I feel she should simply have been told 'no you are not eligible' end of).
Will give him the amazing speeches from the MPs meeting on Oct 31 (I asked him to attend but not sure if he did)

What else? I think *BetsyM00 did a thread of gathering resources already so I will have a look.

Any other things? I am in SE London (just over border from Lewisham in Bromley) if anyone fancies coming too! 3.45pm (I think he purposely scheduled with school run but I have asked a friend to help out, phew!)

Thanks for any comments or suggestions 💐💐💐

ZigZagandDustin Wed 06-Dec-17 14:18:23

Just don't forget that trans people are a diverse group and the majority are not criminals.

Gileswithachainsaw Wed 06-Dec-17 14:22:45

Schools/guides/scouts guidelines 're bathrooms and sleeping arrangements?

Ooh and take a look at the thread about the children with SN being encouraged to conform to the stereotypes to ensure they know their gender.


MacaroonMama Wed 06-Dec-17 14:27:04

ZigZag yes of course, thank you for that. I only know two transpeople personally but I do worry about them - both have mental health issues that have not been solved by transitioning, and they are a far cry from being criminal! I should also point out that perhaps demedicalisation and box-ticking will not actually help those with gender dysphoria, like my friends. They need mental health care too; ticking a box would not help them.

MacaroonMama Wed 06-Dec-17 14:27:57

Giles thank you, yes I have read that and was very concerned - I have an appointment with the Head of my kids' school next week to discuss this very issue! Thanks, will add to the list.

FattyCat Wed 06-Dec-17 14:30:25

Hi MacaroonMama

Well done for MP meeting.

I have always found it helpful, when discussing the implications of GRA, to mention that it's not necessarily individuals that intend to fully transition who are a threat, but the fact that the proposed legal changes will mean that ANY MAN can define himself as a woman and get access to women and girls spaces. Obvious who is going to rubbing their hands together, the Jimmy Saville's of this world.

Any criticism of the proposed law changes are deemed transphobic, but by putting it in those terms I think most would stop and think. Especially those with daughters.

Good Luck!

Gileswithachainsaw Wed 06-Dec-17 14:31:32

Would it also he worth mentioning the complete shutting down of debate?

The sheer lack of reasonable questions being answered and the death threats/rape threats/doxxing and name calling that is the standard response for anyone who dare asks a question?

Not sure if that would get to personal though given it's usually Twitter feeds.

LangCleg Wed 06-Dec-17 14:43:34

I would print off the best - fairly simple - web pages you can find on all the associated issues you said you wanted to raise, and put them all in a folder to give to him. Can't hurt for him to have the detail to refer to later.

And I'd emphasise that your issue isn't with the trans community generally - and that you know most just want a quiet life, unnoticed - just with the proposed change to self-ID and the unacceptable loop holes it introduces.

hackmum Wed 06-Dec-17 15:02:56

All those topics are good ones. If you feel the need to add anything else, I'd add the importance of being able to collect accurate data. If we stop collecting data by biological sex, and use gender identity instead, then we see things like a sudden rise in the numbers of women committing violent crime or sexual assault.

jellyfrizz Wed 06-Dec-17 15:21:40

Just don't forget that trans people are a diverse group and the majority are not criminals.

But at the moment anyone can identify as trans. That's the misunderstanding with the prison figures about trans sex offenders, no one is saying that trans people are more likely to be sex offenders. The issue is that male sex offenders can easily identify as trans women to gain access to women's prisons. Or toilets or rape support groups.....

jellyfrizz Wed 06-Dec-17 15:22:27

Good luck OP! You've got a good list there already.

Fifi5000 Wed 06-Dec-17 18:09:46

Also just point out that the issue with women’s spaces is that women will stop using them, because they are uncomfortable with a mixed sex environment, even if no actual assaults or anything take place. The reason they exist in the first place is to give privacy, dignity and access to public life, as much as protection from assault. This side-effect will probably not be measured and will thus not be picked up if the GRA goes through

SelmaAndJubjub Wed 06-Dec-17 18:27:58

MPs care about votes! Remind him how unpopular mixed sex wards are. Explain that every ward will be mixed sex if the GRA goes ahead. Ask him to look at the comments on articles about the GRA where the public reaction is not censored, e.g., The Times - reaction to the proposed changes is 99% negative.

He may well still believe that TIM are all vulnerable gay men, so unlikely to present a threat to women. So it's important to explain that at least 75% of TIM have no surgery or hormones (this figure is from GIRES, a pro-trans organisation) and that most are sexually attracted to women. And that the effect of the GRA will be to allow any man into female spaces because no one will dare challenge in case the man is trans.

If he is unreceptive, ask him if he believes if any spaces/activities should be sex-segregated. If he says yes, ask why. He is likely to cite women's safety or different physiques (sport), and both points apply to the GRA proposals.

MacaroonMama Thu 07-Dec-17 23:53:32

Thanks everyone! Have also been in touch with someone at Fair Play for Women, and it turns out that my MP is head of a prisons committee who will be looking at this whole issue in great detail. Fingers crossed I can make him and the Committee stop and think! Thanks again xx

Maryz Fri 08-Dec-17 00:03:44

If you are talking about prisons, maybe mention something that has been bothering me for a while but I haven't seen mentioned much.

You know that male-bodied trans women are being moved to female prisons. That's one issue. But also, anyone who is a "woman" is allowed to request a woman to do intimate searches.

So are transwomen allowed to request a woman to do their searches? Are women prison officers being forced to to intimate examinations on (effectively) men, both in women's and men's prisons?

I do hope I'm wrong on this. Because if I'm right the same would apply to any security searches. Lots of women could find themselves in a right mess, not wanting to get involved in strip searching men hmm

CecilyNeville Fri 08-Dec-17 01:46:57

Maryz, there was this story last year.

Here he is again a few months ago

Perhaps male prison officers could identify as female for the few minutes it takes to carry out a search. What's sauce for the goose...

jellyfrizz Fri 08-Dec-17 08:23:33

Good luck today!
Re. prisons. Women number about 4,000 in TOTAL in prison (4,035 in Nov 17 - so even 'small' numbers of trans women would have a large impact. The 125 mentioned (confirmed by MoJ in the Times I believe) would mean 1 tw for every 32 women.

jellyfrizz Fri 08-Dec-17 08:55:27

And that's BEFORE the changes to make it easier to legally change gender has happened.

LangCleg Fri 08-Dec-17 08:55:49

Yes, good luck today!

jellyfrizz - other logistical details - there are only 80 female sex offenders in the whole estate. If, as reported, half the trans-identified males in the male estate are sex offenders, it would almost double the numbers to transfer them. Additionally, there is only one female prison capable of housing Category A prisoners (the dangerous ones). So the female estate only has capacity for about 500 of them. It wouldn't even be possible to transfer significant numbers of violent prisoners from the male to female estate. No cells to put them in.

RedToothBrush Fri 08-Dec-17 10:50:44

Impact on families and their psychology needs too.

Hidden emotional abuse.

Why are families unwilling to talk about their own experiences. The fact that it does not just affect those who are trans.

Safe guarding concerns for under 18s.

The deliberate conflation between sex and gender.

Reducing objects and behaviour to gender stereotypes which guidance seems to be promoting

Chocolatecake84 Fri 08-Dec-17 11:47:46

The most important things to mention, in my opinion, are:

1) the fact that 80% of males who identify as women have fully intact penises and will never undergo any surgery whatsoever.

2) Even if these males do have surgery and even if they "pass" they will never be women. It's impossible to change sex. It's that simple. We can tell the sex of people who lived 100 years ago, thousands of years ago and in 100 years scientists will be able to tell our biological sex. Ask your MP to define sex and gender.

3) Sex discrimination and abuse against women won't suddenly disappear but it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fight against it because women would cease to be a defined group. I can't remember who said it but "you cannot liberate a group of people who cannot be named".

4) Give specific examples i.e. how can a woman be protected against pregnancy and maternity discrimination if men can be "mothers" and breastfeed too? Why is a naked male with a penis in a changing room with a young girl a safeguarding issue but it's suddenly fine if he "identifies" as a woman? Try to find out if your MP has children, especially daughters. How does he think this would affect them?

Hope this helps.

therealposieparker Fri 08-Dec-17 11:50:49

Fairplayforwomen or SAGES have really early accessible resources.

Chocolatecake84 Fri 08-Dec-17 11:54:27

Oh and also the fact that males commit the majority of crime, in particular violent crimes and 98% of sexual violence. In the UK 100% of sexual violence is committed by men because by law you need a penis to rape. Trans people are subjected to violence from other men. The problem is MALE violence.

Chocolatecake84 Fri 08-Dec-17 12:09:26

Something else I remembered: all the attacks on women, both physical and online. Punching women, threatening to punch, hit or even kill women, calling us the disgusting "terf" as well as other misogynistic slurs. It's only women who are treated this way, men don't get attacked for speaking out. Also, the shutting down and silencing of any debate, any questions is worrying and undemocratic.

MacaroonMama Fri 08-Dec-17 12:41:48

Thank you all so much for the support 😘😘😘 I will let you know how it goes xx

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