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Boys and their mothers

(65 Posts)
Ava6 Sat 02-Dec-17 05:09:08

I don't have a brother so I've never observed this in action. I sincerely wonder: how early do boys start understanding that they were born into the high caste of humans while their mothers belong to the low one? How do they reconcile this with being totally dependent on an 'inferior being' and her being the most important person in their world for a long time?

I know that this starts happening really young in the really partriarchal environments. But what about the secular 1st World one?

Ipigglemustdie Sat 02-Dec-17 05:24:43

biscuit had a bad day?

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 05:26:12

Decent humans don't have to reconcile much, do they?

PrincessoftheSea Sat 02-Dec-17 05:26:57

Crazy post

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 05:28:45

Just to be clear OP; You have no brothers, and also no sons, no reasonable men friends and no decent male acquaintances?

stoneagemum Sat 02-Dec-17 05:34:00

Ava6 what is your real issue? Your posts this morning are bizarre

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 02-Dec-17 05:43:59

I don't think my son thinks this. In fact I know he doesn't. There is nothing in his background which would have led him to think his way.

His father and I are in the same profession and our career progressions have been the same; if anything mine eclipses his father's. Within the home there is nothing we did which would have led him to think that. Domestic responsibilities were either outsourced or shared equally.

Both his grandmothers worked, both lived independently of their husband/ former husband.

He went to a private co-ed school which I am confident encouraged and expected all their pupils to be high achieving.

I never banged any feminist drums. Oh I know the wisdom on FWR is that the patriarchy infects and imposes itself on all men but the situation you describe bears no relation whatsoever to me and my son.

could see perfectly well from his immediate family, wider family and our circle of friends that no one thinks women are lower caste or inferior and I have never seen or heard him express such a view.

isthistoonosy Sat 02-Dec-17 05:46:09

I say around 3 or 4 yrs old they start to understand girls and boys are different and may start to think men and women can't do the same jobs. But they would see so many women in caring roles they would be fine about their mum in that role for them. I don't think my 3 and 4 yr old realise they are dependent on me amd their dad. In their eyes they can get food from the fridge, water from the tap, use the toilet, dress themselves we are helpful rather than necessary.

PastaOfMuppets Sat 02-Dec-17 06:17:56

It really sank in for my brother when he was 17 or 18 - when he became an adult and was at uni. He saw that our single DM did everything for us and that our DD didn't need to do women's work. Social media exacerbated it and as soon as he had one GF break his heart he became a misogynist.

FreshHorizons Sat 02-Dec-17 06:22:45

As the mother of 3 sons and the only girl with 2 brothers I would say never. What utter rubbish! Perhaps you have issues that need dealing with.

PastaOfMuppets Sat 02-Dec-17 06:36:05

"I haven't seen this so you are obviously not only incorrect but hysterical/an angry feminist"

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 06:41:14

Weird.

MyKidAreTakingMySanity Sat 02-Dec-17 06:43:30

My son worships me. There's nothing his mum can't do.

FreshHorizons Sat 02-Dec-17 07:02:05

I have looked and OP does have other bizarre threads this morning. I would suggest she gets some counselling to get over her feelings of inferiority and then she could be a better role model.

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 07:07:35

Reminiscent of a previous FWR habitue.

Fifi5000 Sat 02-Dec-17 08:24:27

I think it’s an interesting issue and something I think about a lot with my own young sons. More in the sense of ‘how do I deal with having birthed a member of the oppressive class’?

Fifi5000 Sat 02-Dec-17 08:25:21

Posters are very dismissive of what is a very relevant issue.

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 08:43:28

It's probably experience speaking fi.

I think it's one of those "how many angels on a head of pin", deeply theoretical things that might concern you early on.

But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful.

Once you have adult sons who don't do various worrying things and do have a great relationships with women and show great awareness, etc, it's hard to engage with such lurid theoretical concerns TBH.

"Be the change you want to see" works.

So does "Raise the change you want to see".

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 02-Dec-17 08:55:58

But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful

No, nor me. And I haven't.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 02-Dec-17 09:03:20

PastaOfMuppets

"I haven't seen this so you are obviously not only incorrect but hysterical/an angry feminist"

To be clear - the section in your post in quotes is nothing anyone has said.

Is this an example of the sort of feminist response I was talking about yesterday on an AIBU thread? The one where feminists make up something horrible people have supposedly said about them to show unfair people are to feminists?

BertrandRussell Sat 02-Dec-17 09:09:01

"But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful"

I was certainly aware that lots of women have raised oppressors and bigots. And that even more had raised casual, unthinking sexist men. So yes, I did-and do- think carefully about how I raise my son in a misogynist culture. B

BertrandRussell Sat 02-Dec-17 09:12:22

"The one where feminists make up something horrible people have supposedly said about them to show unfair people are to feminists?"

I may be wearing my Greer Glasses, but isn't this a ttrademark activity of anti feminists? "My husband held a door open for a woman today and got an earful about how she was perfectly capable of opening doors for herself" That sort of thing?

Keepithidden Sat 02-Dec-17 09:18:44

There isn't a cut off point when males become mysoginist. It's a drip, drip, drip approach, and also sub or unconscious, so they may not even realise it themselves. Hell! Most of us go through our entire lives with no recognition of this!

Battleax Sat 02-Dec-17 09:19:33

So yes, I did-and do- think carefully about how I raise my son in a misogynist culture.

And that's how you decided not to raise a misogynist?

I think determination is at least half the battle. The rest is being reflective.

I do think that ever viewing my sons as "members of the oppressive class" would have been damaging to that determination, though.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 02-Dec-17 09:19:38

It may well be if that is what your glasses are looking for Bertrand. I have seen it often done the other way as on this thread.

No one has said what Pasta has "quoted".

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