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Question about equality

(86 Posts)
wnsdkfl Wed 29-Nov-17 21:19:40

For a long time, me and my friend used to discuss about the women's rights for a long time. Being the devil's advocate, I would try to prolong the talk for arguments' sake. But then, it slowly developed into a solid argument (in my opinion). Now I am curious what you all think about my thoughts. If you're willing, can we start a civil discussion?

There are many problems that females face, and there are many problems that males face. Many major groups of rights activists easily overlook, ignore, and deny the other side’s problems and arguments and continue to press on their side of the argument. This happens because of their personal benefit. It is convenient for them (let it be males or females) to have more rights in the future, so the rights activists continue to struggle to this day. I believe that it is necessary for people to open up and reach an agreement that men and women are to be equal, and that they all are entitled to a power to reach an agreement in deciding the distribution of the rights, merits, and responsibilities within the society.

If people want to argue that men and women have the same capabilities, then should the responsibilities of each sex be distributed 50% each? If so, should 50% of the fathers in child custody issues be given a chance to take care of the baby? Should there be no required economic support from the fathers’ side with the assumptions that women are equally capable?

For the wage difference between males and females, is it appropriate to take the maternity leave and other vacancy of the working forces due to some other inevitable female burdens into account when we look into their wages? If so, do we pay them for their times away from work as well? If not, how will you take this approach?

What is the limit that you all are comfortable to set and say that “this is equal” to everyone? Is your ideals for equality something that is entirely 50:50, or something that is derived from each sex’s “roles” within the society? Is it a mix of both? Or is it something entirely different? Do women need more rights over men because in the past, it was other way around? I am very curious.

When confronting these questions, it is very important to question yourself if you are arguing for sake of your own convenience. If you are going to make an emotional appeal for your argument, take into account what the opposite sex will go through emotionally when something similar happens to them. If you are going to make a statistical report, question the source’s biasness from their research, as it is easy to remove the parts that are inconvenient for them and still tell the truth. It will be truly hard to argue in a impartial manner.

QuentinSummers Wed 29-Nov-17 21:25:11

biscuit

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 29-Nov-17 21:39:00

No.

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 29-Nov-17 21:39:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuentinSummers Wed 29-Nov-17 21:42:46

I just found it tediously predictable. Not really very interested in playing devil's advocate.
Anyway assassinated how've you been? What's your favourite biscuit? I would quite like more variety than the MN jam rings, although I do like jam rings

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 29-Nov-17 21:44:49

A chocolate bourbon would do me. Or a garibaldi.

Do you call the MN biscuit a jammy dodger, or is that a regional name?

InfiniteCurve Wed 29-Nov-17 21:46:06

When confronting these questions, it is very important to question yourself if you are arguing for sake of your own convenience. If you are going to make an emotional appeal for your argument, take into account what the opposite sex will go through emotionally when something similar happens to them. If you are going to make a statistical report, question the source’s biasness from their research, as it is easy to remove the parts that are inconvenient for them and still tell the truth. It will be truly hard to argue in a impartial manner.

Yeah,right - never would have considered all that on my own,I've only been thinking about stuff like this for the past 40ish years,after all.
"It will be truly hard to argue in an ( an - nit picky pedantry alert - an,an,an) impartial manner"
Really? Really? hmm
I think this post may have irritated me a bit....

CocoaXx Wed 29-Nov-17 21:49:30

biscuit

WhatWouldGenghisDo Wed 29-Nov-17 21:49:31

The parent who does most of the childcare should have residency following separation or divorce

The parent who doesn't sacrifice their career to childcare should provide maintenance

There. That sounds fair to me

DJBaggySmalls Wed 29-Nov-17 21:49:48

Are you from the US? Because here in the UK men usually get 50:50 custody. Unless they are violent, unfit or absent.

Women dont overlook mens problems, men need to identify what they are, and are capable of fixing them.
We have finite resources, and focus on the issues we face directly.

Feminism isn't just about equality though. Its about far more than that; obtaining agency. For example, its still extremely difficult for women to get contraception or an abortion. Even after rape or incest.

Women are far more likely to be murdered by a male partner than they are to murder. But we still dont have enough domestic violence shelters.

We arent asking for anything men dont already have. If men wanted women to be equal we would have achieved that by now. The inequalities (you may know them as biases) are built into the system; but men deny that patriarchy exists because the system doesnt benefit all men.

We arent arguing from just emotion, or for our own convenience. Equality is logical as well as fair. Inequality harms the ruling group as well.

Thelilywhite Wed 29-Nov-17 21:54:24

A biscuit? I thought it was a donut!

PencilsInSpace Wed 29-Nov-17 22:04:08

Yeah I got as far as Being the devil's advocate. Off you trot biscuit

QuentinSummers Wed 29-Nov-17 22:07:01

That's a great blog pencils
lily wouldn't a donut emoticon be awesome? Wonder if it works
[donut]

QuentinSummers Wed 29-Nov-17 22:07:37

Boo
biscuit
tardis

birdsdestiny Wed 29-Nov-17 22:08:49

I had a jammy dodger today. I am contemplating stealing the Wispa belonging to ds in a moment. Sigh, third similar thread in 2 days.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 29-Nov-17 22:09:56

Thats really quite a rude opening post

Quite patronising

Well to be fair the last paragraph

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 29-Nov-17 22:11:19

Who was it recently going on about DONUTS on a thread

It was capitalised and everything

ALittleBitOfButter Wed 29-Nov-17 22:12:34

Just standing here clenching so ny pelvic floor doesn't droop out of my vagina. Oh what was that? Did you say that all you had to do to make a baby was orgasm? Why can't women do that? Perhaps my bits would be intact!

biscuit

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 29-Nov-17 22:12:45

For a strong (allegedly) argument you are not half asking a lot of questions

ALittleBitOfButter Wed 29-Nov-17 22:13:39

So interesting to hear about your chats with your friend for a long time! Glad to know your views have a PROVENANCE.

biscuit

SonicBoomBoom Wed 29-Nov-17 22:14:12

Being the devil's advocate, I would try to prolong the talk for arguments' sake.

How very tedious.

Though I always appreciate a nice civil biscuit discussion.

MrsDoylesBodybags Wed 29-Nov-17 22:15:23

I don't know OP, I got a bit bored with your post and I really feel like eating some biscuits now.

Playing devils advocate here I think I prefer Fig Rolls to Jammie Dodgers

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 29-Nov-17 22:15:37

Does anyone remember those biscuits that were lemon flavour and a bit like a custard cream but the biscuit bit was flaky

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Wed 29-Nov-17 22:16:10

Or puffy

It might have been something puff or puffs

SonicBoomBoom Wed 29-Nov-17 22:16:18

🍩

Chocolate doughnut for you, Quentin.

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