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Why can I not discuss women adopting a lot of dress and styling of men to get on in the world.

(28 Posts)
HidingBehindTheWallpaper Mon 27-Nov-17 19:49:01

I was merely considering how much men’s clothing, names and general style have been generally adopted by women but the same doesn’t travel the other way.

hipsterfun Mon 27-Nov-17 19:59:15

Can you give an example?

Trills Mon 27-Nov-17 20:00:32

Who says you can't discuss it?

Trills Mon 27-Nov-17 20:01:26

It's generally the case that women are "permitted" to adopt the traditionally masculine, much more than men are permitted to adopt the traditionally feminine.

"Tomboy" is a description not an insult. What is the opposite? Sissy?

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 27-Nov-17 20:01:50

Of course you can discuss it. Although it's obvious why it doesn't happen the other way around.

Trills Mon 27-Nov-17 20:03:08

It's not even just that traditionally-female things are undervalued, but also that if women show an interest in a thing it becomes less valuable.

www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html

Ttbb Mon 27-Nov-17 20:03:43

You can but I don't think that they necessarily do it to get on in the world. I wear men's/masculine clothing because I like it as opposed to wanting to create a particular impression.

Trills Mon 27-Nov-17 20:06:37

That's a good point Ttbb

HidingBehindTheWallpaper Mon 27-Nov-17 20:22:12

Because my thread about just that got deleted!!

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 27-Nov-17 20:23:52

What was the title? I didn't see it.

MrsTerryPratchett Mon 27-Nov-17 20:24:59

Cryptic, much?

TinselTwins Mon 27-Nov-17 20:32:05

Yanbu, my ex boss took pride in rejecting all things she perceived as woman-ey, and equated being man-like with having a good work ethic. She was horrible to any female staff who did somebody things like taking full maternity leave or breast feeding or working part time and constantly inferred that this meant we weren't serious about our jobs.

Somewhere along the way she got the impression that she only got her senior position by acting and dressing like a man, and maybe she was right about that?
She was a mother and made a point of never taking time off work even if her kids were I'll etc. Men don't have to prove that they're not too "distracted" by fatherhood for promotion but women do

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Mon 27-Nov-17 20:33:09

The thread will have been pulled because of some of the humorous responses, particularly the darker ones, which will have been read by some as anti-men, I think.
I am sure if we stick to the topic as you have described it here this one will be fine.

DrRisotto Mon 27-Nov-17 21:36:29

I was surprised it got pulled actually, I thought it was a funny tongue in cheek thing. Like that thread ages ago about someone wanting to be more French!

The deletion message said yours was inflammatory.

tiptopteepe Mon 27-Nov-17 21:42:15

I have noticed this. Its quite worrying as well that people are proud of it and seem to think its feminist. Surely it just adds to a low view of women if you associate their traditional clothing with frivolity and stupidity. What is actually wrong with pink? Whats stupid about flowers?
I dont think its helpful to act like women who appear traditionally feminine are somehow less feminist than those who dress in a more traditionally masculine manner

Pooley83 Mon 27-Nov-17 22:11:27

As a man I wear clothing that seen as feminine or just for females and I'm certainly not confused with my gender, sexuality, culture or whatever - it just my style.

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 27-Nov-17 22:12:53

Does it help you get on in the world?

Guiltybystander Mon 27-Nov-17 22:20:16

Women can wear anything and still look feminine. However, masculinity (or the image of it) is more fragile and you can easily turn a man into a caricature or a laughing stock by adding something feminine to him.
Having said that though, I think most man look strangely sexy with eyeliner on. The ancient Egyptians did it. But if you put lipstick on them, it's already laughing stock material.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Mon 27-Nov-17 22:22:57

I saw the thread. I thought it was nasty , childish and unfunny. I am not surprised it was pulled.

It also trivialised the situation of any one who is female to male. Oddly the only trans person I know is female to male in his late 20s. I wonder what he would have made of it .

HidingBehindTheWallpaper Mon 27-Nov-17 22:41:00

I wasn't trivialising someone who is FTM trans.

What I was thinking was that for a male to take on female clothes he can wear a dress, long hair, make up and look very different to most men.
However for a woman most of the male clothes - trousers/shirts - are often worn by women. Many women wear their hair short. Lots of women don't wear make up. Male names tend to slip over to being female names.

I found it interesting that as women we take on a lot of traits of men. Simple changes of clothes just won't make a woman look like a man.

HidingBehindTheWallpaper Mon 27-Nov-17 22:43:03

Oddly the only trans person I know is female to male in his late 20s. I wonder what he would have made of it

I'm intrigued, genuinely, what did they wear/do to present themselves as male? Other than a male cut suit and tie I can't think of many inherently male items of clothing.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno Mon 27-Nov-17 22:45:00

Well men’s dress is usually more comfortable. High heels are a pain in the arse for many and trousers mean you don’t have to shave your legs.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Mon 27-Nov-17 22:45:19

It came across to me as trivialising it. All "Ooh , what I'd do if I were a man" followed by a list of hackneyed stereotypes.

All I thought of was what would my friend think if he read it. It was sneering and nasty. It wasn't me who reported it but it deserved to be reported.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Mon 27-Nov-17 22:51:47

I'm intrigued, genuinely, what did they wear/do to present themselves as male? Other than a male cut suit and tie I can't think of many inherently male items of clothing

You are being disingenuous about that thread. It was called something about how would I live as a man and became a pile on as to who could come up with the nastiest stereotype about men.

I don't feel inclined to discuss anything more about my friend beyond he does not fit the theory on here that ftm must be oppressed lesbians who weren't allowed to be tomboys.

HidingBehindTheWallpaper Mon 27-Nov-17 23:48:28

High heels are a pain in the arse for many and trousers mean you don’t have to shave your legs.

I wear flats and trousers everyday. I haven’t shaved my legs since the clocks changed.

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