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Are we an echo chamber?

(90 Posts)
YippeeKiYayMelonFarmer Sun 26-Nov-17 13:44:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

W8what Sun 26-Nov-17 14:01:42

Yeah possibly. I’ve only signed on recently, am on the intersectionality thread and there is a general consensus but some really good points against the prevailing consensus which i think is really useful because its making me think about what my point actually is if it makes sense? I havent really thought a lot about the subject but i tend to think of this as helpful, even if my argument does disintegrate, thats not a loss. I learnt a bit and can contribute more meaningfully next time.

I am still thinking about what is being said and deciding if i need to go back and either refine my point, poss admit I’m wrong on something, or admit defeat and just say i danno. I see this as part of the reasonign proccess. Not having well thought out studied talking points on something doesn’t mean that in the course of the debate something meaningful can’t be found.

Debate is always good. I’m a bit strident on the trans thing because i only just realised that i actually care about it recently but am open to an alternative view (ok not really)

I do think some of the responses other members have got about not being a feminist or not understanding it have been harsh which would put them off engaging which would be a shame.

CritEqual Sun 26-Nov-17 14:20:34

Everywhere is becoming an echo chamber these days, it's not peculiar to feminism. I don't entirely agree with feminism, but I find feminists are fellow travellers when it comes down to specific issues. In the current climate I try to focus on the common ground I share with people, and save the particularly robust debates to those I am close to.

VerticalBlinds Sun 26-Nov-17 14:33:12

Probably. This is an increasing trend everywhere.

On FB I am in lots of radfem groups and got worried about this so I joined some libfem sites. Jesus christ. In a way I know I have been "radicalsied" in that things that would have made me aghast a few years back I'm now OK whatever even if I don't agree. But when I go elsewhere, it doesn't soften my views, it reinforces and hardens them.

Fundamentally, people talking amongst themselves about political issues with those who are in broad agreement is normal and fine. Would an anti racist campaigner be told they had to hang out with the KKK more for balance? I mean I know it's happened, but generally people don't suggest it to people who say they are active about racial discrimination and inequality. It is definitely true that women (feminists) get told this more because lots of people feel deep down that we should put others first and that caring about women first is immoral or something.

LangCleg Sun 26-Nov-17 14:36:54

It probably is a bit of an echo chamber but it is a very visible one. As I said on the 'thanks' thread, I'm entirely sure there are hundreds of people reading what's being said. And that aspect of it is not an echo chamber, you know?

OlennasWimple Sun 26-Nov-17 14:44:14

There are plenty of regular posters on FWR who have different views on key aspects of feminism, such as sex work or male / female socialisation. So it's less of an echo chamber here than other bits of the internet.

And when new people do come along with dissenting views, if they actually engage (rather than shouting "bigots!" and running off, or trying to mansplain), I think they get treated respectfully and made welcome

QuentinSummers Sun 26-Nov-17 16:43:14

So I do wonder if I am missing exposure to some thoughtful reasoned debate on the other side of the issues raised on here?

Assuming you mean the trans debate, I don't think it exists because I've tried to find it. The trans ideology is based on emotion and feelings not facts and as such it's not possible to find a reasoned debate.

I think that's why so many people are "ploppers" on these posts, because they can't argue.

We do often get called an echo chamber on here but I've had robust debates too (about things like gymnastic dress, whether or not you'd believe a girl who accused your son of rape and yesterday the "cis" thing) so we definitely aren't a hive mind.

I think MN is less likely to be an echo chamber than other social media because you can't block people or control who posts here (as long as it's within talk guidelines)

MrGHardy Sun 26-Nov-17 18:15:21

Perhaps, but debate is overrated these days. I mostly just read on here, but contribute more on another board where there are a lot of different views. But tbh there is no real debate. People say debate is good and we must listen to one another, etc. etc. but more and more people don't actually do that. People just state their opinion, say stuff like "logic" and "proof" and pretend it means they are "right" and don't actually listen. It ends up as name calling and I'm right and you're wrong because I said so.

CritEqual Sun 26-Nov-17 18:28:12

I get a great deal out of this TED talk which I believe touches on this topic:

www.ted.com/talks/julia_galef_why_you_think_you_re_right_even_if_you_re_wrong

NotDavidTennant Sun 26-Nov-17 18:47:54

MN has become an echo chamber on the trans issue. And not only that, but I think the issue has completely stifled feminist discussion on MN: look at the first page of threads on the Feminism Chat topic and the majority are related to trans in one way or another. It has become an obsession.

QuentinSummers Sun 26-Nov-17 19:12:08

I agree about feminist chat, notdavid. But we get trolled to fuck if we discuss other stuff.
Also MN seems to like this stuff being in feminism.
Can you point to some places with a more reasonable debate on the trans issue? All I find is #nodebate type posting

PhilODox Sun 26-Nov-17 19:16:02

Sorry, what is japab? I even googled...confused

AssassinatedBeauty Sun 26-Nov-17 19:17:50

@Philodox, another poster, male I think, who usually has opposite views to other posters.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 26-Nov-17 19:19:05

JAPAB is a poster.

It is a bit of an echo chamber here, but I always learn new stuff. On twitter I follow loads of TRAs just in case they have a point.

You do have to be aware this is an echo chamber, and as with any other "source" make sure you read critically.

NotDavidTennant Sun 26-Nov-17 19:21:56

I'm not massively interested in the trans debate (hence my post) so am not really the person to ask on that front.

NotDavidTennant Sun 26-Nov-17 19:22:48

Sorry, my last post was to QuentinSummers

AnyFucker Sun 26-Nov-17 19:25:05

Oh, I dunno

I have strong opinions and not afraid to share them

I don't conform to what is thought to be typical Radfem ideology. For example, I can't get exercised by females changing name on marriage and SAHM. I shave my legs/pits but not my private parts. I wear make up but not handbags. I am gender critical but support genuinely dysphoric males and females.

There is debate to be had even in within those broad issues.

slightlyglittermaned Sun 26-Nov-17 19:28:58

TBH, there's "echo chamber" and there's "having enough common ground to actually be able to argue in good faith".

I'm not going to piss my time up a wall arguing with someone who doesn't believe women are really people. I can find them anywhere.

What I want to do here is get into the sort of mind-expanding discussions that happen when you get beyond that very first basic level.

slightlyglittermaned Sun 26-Nov-17 19:29:47

Good examples AnyFucker

AnyFucker Sun 26-Nov-17 19:33:30

Oh, I can't be arsed about shared toilets either. As long as they are floor to ceiling cubicles.

PhilODox Sun 26-Nov-17 19:35:48

Ah, thanks blush

AnyFucker Sun 26-Nov-17 19:37:29

JAPAB is simply a mindfucker or thinks he is. I stopped engaging with those types a long time ago.

slightlyglittermaned Sun 26-Nov-17 19:40:47

Yes. Once I get the impression a poster has their other hand on their cock, I'll not be giving them any strokes by responding to them instead of having the intelligent discussion I came here for.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 26-Nov-17 19:43:23

It is, certainly, on the trans issue.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sun 26-Nov-17 20:01:57

another poster, male I think, who usually has opposite views to other posters

I am on occasions in agreement with JAPAB and Larrygrills another male poster.

The comment "Once I get the impression a poster has their other hand on their cock, I'll not be giving them any strokes by responding" if directed at JAPAB is unfair.

I can't get worked up about toilets either. Or shop changing rooms if they are the floor to ceiling lockable ones which Cos has.

Nor the endless threads complaining about "wifework" (sort it out/don't do it/ don't do it and complain about it) or the endless exaggeration about how terrible women's clothes are/how impossible it is to buy comfortable clothes/everything is pandering to the male gaze.

The changing your name point on the other hand boggles me-it never occurred to me to change my name or call myself "Mrs"

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