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So disappointed with dh re women's rights

(48 Posts)
FritzDonovan Wed 22-Nov-17 10:36:10

Started off as quite a benign comment to the dc re trans, about men being born with a penis, to which he said not to listen to me as I was a bigot.
Tried to explain I didn't have an issue with trans people per se, but was concerned about the accompanying erosion of women's rights wrt women only safe spaces etc (seems the solution should be trans spaces allocated too). Sent him some links about aggressive trans activists which he didn't seem to see as a problem towards women. If you remember the two women getting intimidated and harassed for handing out feminist leaflets, he couldn't comment because he didn't know what was written on the leaflet!? Similarly didn't see the same issues I did on reading any of the other articles/links.
He refuses to see why women should be able to have penis free spaces. Apparently having an issue with trans activists misogynist behaviour and concerns over erosion of women's (cisfemale?) rights means I'm against all trans ppl. Which I'm not.
He said he's not interested in the issue so won't read up about it, yet has spoken out in church/on social media about gay rights for years. Cue massive argument because he (privileged white male, never been concerned about his safety walking down a dark street/in dodgy toilets, etc) seems to care more about gay rights than women's rights, despite the fact he has a wife and daughter who could potentially be affected.

I'm so angry and disappointed, but dont have the eloquence or information to argue. Anyone had this problem with dh? Where do I go with it from here? Any resources which may get through to him?

Elendon Wed 22-Nov-17 12:35:01

Have read your post and couldn't but respond. I'm probably not the best person to respond to this though. When my ex left me for someone else he called me a feminazi because I had the temerity to go onto so called feminist websites such as feministing.

I hadn't yet seen this website. (Wish I had in retrospect).

Ask him if he would be happy to accompany his daughter to topshop into the changing rooms with all of her friends for him to try on clothes and for her to be happy with this.

doctorcuntybollocks Wed 22-Nov-17 12:40:13

The trans movement and gay rights are entirely at odds: he can't support both.

doctorcuntybollocks Wed 22-Nov-17 12:42:51

If he cares about gay rights how does he feel about gender-nonconforming children, many of whom grow up to be gay, being neutered?

SuperLoudPoppingAction Wed 22-Nov-17 12:46:23

As a lesbian I feel like a lot of trans politics are set up to make my life difficult and erase an identity that is meaningful to me.

Is he more into gay male rights? Even so, gay men don't seem keen to be pressured to consider partners with vaginas.

I think it's almost more of an issue that he undermined you around your children calling you a bigot though.

fruitlovingmonkey Wed 22-Nov-17 13:09:04

I can deal with opposing political views on most subjects but this would be a deal breaker for me.
Agreeing with the trans agenda just seems to demonstrate a lack of critical thinking and/or utter disregard for the female sex.

Collidascope Wed 22-Nov-17 13:15:35

Does he know the stat that 98% of those imprisoned for sexual offences are men? Does he know that in England and Wales alone, 85000 women will be raped every year? That most rapists aren't even charged, let alone imprisoned? Have you told him about the various assault and harassment from men that you, like all other women, have experienced over the years? Also, ask him about the fact that some Muslim women might have issues regarding getting changed with male-bodied people.
Also, ask him to define woman.

Collidascope Wed 22-Nov-17 13:17:33

Just to add, I honestly think some men think that with regard to sexual violence, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other with men and women. You can shock them when you point out that men are largely the aggressors and women largely the victims.

Collidascope Wed 22-Nov-17 13:22:33

Also, Op (sorry, I'm really mad on your behalf here), he's called you a bigot whilst saying he isn't interested enough to read up on the issue. There are many things I'm not interested in, and if someone else had read up, I don't think I'd be rushing to accuse them of bigotry. Quite frankly, it's huge arrogance that he would assume he knows better than you when you've actually read up and looked at the implications properly.

OldCrone Wed 22-Nov-17 15:20:17

If he cares about gay rights, this article explains the inherent homophobia within the trans ideology.

Also sport. Is he OK with women's sport being taken over by transwomen? If you have daughters, would he be happy if they worked hard to compete in a sport but were beaten by a boy who 'identifies' as a girl? Lots of this already happening.

nauticant Wed 22-Nov-17 15:37:44

OP, if you were to take any of the useful suggestions from this thread and asked your DH to read relevant links, what do you think his response would be?

SelmaAndJubjub Wed 22-Nov-17 15:40:36

Heterosexual men are very anxious about sexual assault in the rare circumstances when this is a real possibility for them, notably prison. Ask your DH how he’d feel being in a prison cell with a man who was bigger, stronger and expressing sexual interest in him. Because that’s women’s every day reality (barring the cell, obviously).

DJBaggySmalls Wed 22-Nov-17 15:53:39

The fact he belittled me in front of the kids, and dismissed any concern I had for myself would be a deal breaker for me.
Virtue signalling may work online but doesn't cut it in real life, especially not when your a parent.

jellyfrizz Wed 22-Nov-17 16:30:55

It's because he's got nothing to lose. Trans men in male toilets aren't a major threat - he's likely bigger and stronger than most of trans men, same goes for sports. Women only scholarships and posts to address an imbalance in men and women in certain areas wouldn't affect him because he would never have suffered the same disadvantage in the first place.

GuardianLions Wed 22-Nov-17 17:39:08

I don't think your DH sees women as human OP. He can only empathise or care about the plight of penised people. I bet his sexism and misogyny are much more deeply entrenched than you suspect.

GuardianLions Wed 22-Nov-17 17:45:57

So I think you have to get to the root with him. Ask him questions like:

1. Do you think women are as valuable as men?
2. Do you think issues that only affect women are as important as issues that only affect men?
3. Do you think that sexism still exists and affects women and girls lives?
3. Do you think there are some problems women have that are invisible to men, because men don't have those problems?

etc, etc, etc... I wonder what point he will bluntly say no? I fear it might even be at point #1 from your OP.

BelaLugosisShed Wed 22-Nov-17 17:48:50

I doubt I could stay married to a man who is ignorant of both biological reality and the impact of Trans rights on women and girls. My husband understood the issues even before I became enraged about them.

TitaniasCloset Wed 22-Nov-17 18:22:31

Must be the day for this, I just had a guy friend ask we why I’m wasting my time with this when there are bigger issues out there. I politely disagreed and sent him a link to the sages leaflet.

TitaniasCloset Wed 22-Nov-17 18:23:13

Maybe Venus has mercury conflicted by mars, or something like that.

Nyx1 Wed 22-Nov-17 18:30:47

fritz "He refuses to see why women should be able to have penis free spaces"

have you asked him why he thinks women's hospital wards etc came about in the first place?

BahHumbygge Wed 22-Nov-17 18:31:43

Reason #47806346979589073 women need safe spaces. Woman assaulted in Bristol nightclub unisex toilet.

FritzDonovan Wed 22-Nov-17 19:35:05

Some questions to ask him, at an appropriate time, thank you. A couple of those I think he's already dismissed though- one of the links i sent (if he actually read it, he said he did) was about a biological man in women's sport. He didnt mention it so I can assume he doesn't class this as any erosion of womens rights in any way.
With the toilet issue, im sure he has in the past thought its not an issue because WTM transitioners should be able to use theems as well - failing to see that actually some of those have spoken out as being uncomfortable with that because of the way they are treated by biological men. (damn sure im not making that up, but without a written article to show, its dismissed) Common factor causing the problem - ppl with penises.
I was getting quite riled, esp so when he implied he would be get just as cross next time i disagreed with his beliefs - how he can equate my belief that women should have a penis free space (with supporting facts to prove its necessary) with his belief in god (which is what he was talking about), i don't know.
His closure to the argument was that if I felt that strongly about it I should write to my MP. Seemingly no empathy with my views (as a woman with a daughter) that we deserve safe spaces which are guaranteed free from male interference. As any old man declaring themselves a woman seems able to access women's spaces now. Anyone know any articles which could back up why this is a bad idea?
Pp, I think you're right, he's ignorant and uncaring because it doesn't affect him. superloud Would be interesting to know if his championing of gay rights is more of a subconscious gay (male) support rather than gay (female)...Though I doubt he would admit it, if it were true. Seems likely, though I'd never thought of it. Thx for the link oldcrone. I haven't read it yet, but fear it would prop up his belief in gay rights (nothing wrong with that per se) without him having to consider (non gay) womens rights iyswim. Is there a similar snappy article somewhere which shows all the womens rights which are being eroded? I was interested that as a (lesbian)woman you felt the trans agenda was erasing your identity - is this specifically due to being female? I sent him a link to the cps schools project and the serious implications for girls inherent in that, he hasn't mentioned it.
titania what is the sages leaflet, please?

Nyx1 Wed 22-Nov-17 19:42:30

OP, sorry, you sound like you could be James O'Brien's wife? I'm sure you're not grin

TitaniasCloset Wed 22-Nov-17 19:44:15

Oh gosh let me see if I can link on this phone, it’s really useful.

doctorcuntybollocks Wed 22-Nov-17 19:44:34

Lesbians are doubly erased: erased as women and erased as homosexual.

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