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Secret briefings by Equality & Human Rights Commission to trans charities - dissenting voices not informed

(22 Posts)
pisacake Wed 08-Nov-17 14:19:07

"At the weekend the Sunday Times reported that Equality and Human Rights Commission would this past Monday issue a briefing on: ‘New guidelines, to be published by March, [which] will set out how to address and what pronouns to use for transgender pupils, as well as how to accommodate them in terms of changing rooms, sports teams, lavatories and uniforms. The guidelines will also deal with bullying, single-sex admissions and parental concerns.’

Who will it be briefing? Not schools nor teachers, and certainly not parents. Instead it has disclosed this information to ‘such activist groups as Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, Gires, Stonewall and Press for Change’."

Not one word of this on their website. Just brief all the batshit trans lobbyists and then do exactly what they want.

Thelilywhite Wed 08-Nov-17 22:04:55


WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe Wed 08-Nov-17 23:12:31

Thanks for putting this up pisacake. Some of the most sensible articles about these issues are coming from the most unexpected of places.

One minute I think we're moving forward into a more positive and balanced debate, then you read just who will be briefed on these guidelines. As it says, TRA sympathetic organisations rather than parents and teachers, or, god forbid, women.

pisacake Wed 08-Nov-17 23:16:21

There's some stats here from the US.

80% of Republicans believe sex is determined at birth, against only 24% of white Democrats.

So it is a right/left issue in many ways.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Wed 08-Nov-17 23:49:08

Strange bedfellows indeed. This is the mission statement of The Conservative Woman.

Three and a half years ago, we decided the time had come for a counter-cultural offensive against the forces of Leftism, feminism and Cameroonism – against the anti-family, identity politics and ‘equality and diversity’ ideology sweeping through the country’s institutions.

The Conservative Woman was born.

Under the banner of progressive politics, we’d seen Cameron’s Conservatives capitulating to these forces and abandoning any claim to represent conservatism. His proudest moment, he said, was to redefine marriage – a word he stole to represent a contract that no longer depended on the union of one man and one woman

Now, under Mrs May’s leadership, it is not just language that is under assault, but the very idea of what it is to be a man or a woman. Once again her party has surrendered, this time to an even more disturbing and destructive ideology – transgenderism.

WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe Thu 09-Nov-17 00:08:44

That is interesting Lass. They say you're more likely to move from a left position to a more right wing one as you get older but I never thought it might apply to me, in any circumstances. However if The Conservative Woman, The Sun and The Daily Fail are the leaders in spelling put some of the difficulties of the TRA lobby it really makes you think.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Thu 09-Nov-17 00:25:40

The Conservative Woman, I guess, would share the general consensus on FWR on pornography and prostitution although presumably not abortion.

morningrunner Thu 09-Nov-17 07:05:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FizzyWaterAndElderflower Thu 09-Nov-17 07:35:26

The Conservative Woman, I guess, would share the general consensus on FWR on pornography and prostitution although presumably not abortion.

This is it isn't it. Just because the very end of the opinion is the same, doesn't mean the journey and reasons for getting there are the same.

I suspect we have very different reasons to The Conservative Woman for having an issue with the trans cult, and possibly our feelings on where lines in the sand should be drawn are at different places because of that.

jellyfrizz Thu 09-Nov-17 09:22:13

80% of Republicans believe sex is determined at birth, against only 24% of white Democrats.

Not meaning to be picky pisa but the research talks about whether they agree that 'a person’s gender is determined by their sex assigned at birth' rather than sex being determined at birth.

I think it is really important to distinguish between sex and gender. I too would disagree that a person's gender is determined by their sex at birth because gender is a load of sex role stereotypes forced on us because of our sex. I don't believe you have to live your life by those stereotypes.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth Thu 09-Nov-17 09:34:10

I never thought I'd be supporting 'The Conservative Woman'.

Feeling really angry this morning. And lost. WTF is happening in the world? I can't believe I'm being pushed to the right because the Left is so fucking regressive for women.

DJBaggySmalls Thu 09-Nov-17 11:18:47

I'm not being pushed to the Right, these changes are being proposed by the Right.
IMO thats part of the agenda behind all this. To make people disgusted and move to the Right, and to ask for more legislation and control to put a stop to it.

busyboysmum Thu 09-Nov-17 11:52:24

Yes that's the only thing that makes sense about the right's support for the legislation. That or they really are so stupid that they actually think the youth might vote for them if they seem to be right on with this issue! All they will do is drive away their current support.

pisacake Thu 09-Nov-17 12:31:24

> I'm not being pushed to the Right, these changes are being proposed by the Right.

I don't think it's like that.

The Tories have been 'toxic'. Now you might say this is because of benefits reviews and such like, but they believe it's because of social issues. And, partly at least, it is. So they are 'detoxifying', by running a left-wing programme on social issues.

The Republicans are Right on social issues because America still has lots of religious people. The Conservatives are not.

In terms of white people then it's only going to be minorities such as some working class, or Christians that are socially conservative. And in this country quite a lot of Christians are now socially liberal.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Thu 09-Nov-17 19:06:53

But many on the right are pro-trans. Amongst Christian conservatives in the US it's seen as preferable to having a gay child. Ditto in Iran which could hardly be described as a bastion of liberal lefties. I don't see this as a left vs right issue. I see it as a case of people who give some thought to things and are capable of understanding nuance vs people who think in very black and white terms and are really quite bigoted. Those people exist amongst the voters of all political parties.

And it's perfectly possible to agree with people who hold different political views to yourself on some issues and not others. For example, my entire family vote Conservative, but they agree with me that fox hunting should banned.

pisacake Thu 09-Nov-17 19:26:41

> Amongst Christian conservatives in the US it's seen as preferable to having a gay child.


> Ditto in Iran which could hardly be described as a bastion of liberal lefties.

Well that's slightly different I think. Islam seems to have some very rigid rules and then some very convenient loopholes around them. I think Christianity goes more for the 'you're forgiven and don't do it again' approach, whereas in Islam you just get a temporary marriage with your prostitute or whatever, and it's all dandy.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Thu 09-Nov-17 19:48:50

Here are a couple, both talk about having sons who did not conform to what they felt was the correct behaviour for a boy. I've seen other posters here mention Jazz Jennings as another possible example. Also, not a gay man but definitely very right wing, Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Thu 09-Nov-17 19:50:24

And yes, some branches of Christianity are very liberal and forgiving, others, not so much. There are umpteen, possibly hundreds of sects within Christianity and they don't all believe the same thing.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Thu 09-Nov-17 19:56:10

One more then I'll shut up - the idea of transing children who don't conform to gender stereotypes is very conservative. It directly conforms to the traditional Christian/conservative idea that the ideal man or woman will conform to the gender role assigned to them.

Poppyred85 Thu 09-Nov-17 19:58:43

While I do agree with a number of the points made in the article, I think we need to be careful what sources we use to support our arguments. A quick look at the website for the organisation he heads up is a religious, conservative Christian group that is opposed to abortion, gay marriage, educating children in same sex relationships etc. There is more than enough evidence to demonstrate the harm the changes to the GRA would cause if the bill goes through without needing to ally ourselves to groups like this, which I think reduces our credibility.

pisacake Thu 09-Nov-17 21:03:39

Saskia that doesn't really show that it's preferable, the first says they did it IN SPITE of their Christian beliefs., the second doesn't really mention it either way.

I don't think that you can say that it's (Christian) conservative to trans kids. While you are right about the traditional gender roles being a Christian conservative thing, I'm not sure that transgender people really truly fulfil those roles, and to get there you need to jump over objections to homosexuality and other things.

The conservative thing would be 'you're not gay, you're not trans, you just need to get married'

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Thu 09-Nov-17 21:18:29

For some Christians it would be, for others it wouldn't. Some will take the stance that converting your gay son into a straight daugher is the lesser of two evils, just as is done in a more extreme form in Iran. And in both articles the parents do say that their son was favouring behaviour that they associated with girls. The same is true of Jazz Jennings parents. And that Jenner person is extremely conservative and has previously condemned gay people but has no problem with being trans. Or, ironically, dating a woman now that he is apparently also one.

It really can't be said with an accuracy that Christians and/or conservatives will all have the same opinion about this. Nor can it be said that if you happen to agree with someone who is a conservative that you are moving to the right. And I do think that suggesting that either of those positions are correct is damaging to our case because it a) gives TRAs a stick to beat us with by associating us with right wingers and b) can be rebutted which means anything else we say can be dismissed too.

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