Gentlemen's club opens it doors to women

[pisacake]

No not really. Apparently one member of the Savile Club, a married father, is transing, but it's ok because you only need to be a man to join, there's nothing in the rules about continuing to be a man.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/04/private-gentlemans-club-allows-first-woman-member-150-year-history/

So he can have his cake and eat it.

"In the past couple of years moves to admit women as members have been rejected by as much as an 80-20 majority."

Bit like when Olympic athlete Caitlyn Jenner signed up for the golf club as a man and then used the women's tees.

So much for the bollocks about giving up male privilege that credulous twats like the BBC swallowed www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-41502661/100-women-i-transitioned-and-lost-my-male-privilege for their '100 women' series (obviously it was too hard to find 100 women, so they had to include men as well)

[pisacake]

I do wonder why 'Evan Smith' would choose to trans to 'Vivienne Ming'. Ming is a Chinese name. He claims, disingenuously, that it's a combination of his wife's name Chang and his Smith. Fuck knows how he works that out. Yao Ming is the world's most famous Chinese sportsmen.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/12/vivienne-ming-self-discovery-gender-transition_n_3998281.html

I mean how fucking tough it must be to be to have an Asian name working in Silicon Valley. Really curious why he didn't trans to Shanice Johnson or similar. Narcissistic fuck.

[EBearhug]

I mean how fucking tough it must be to be to have an Asian name working in Silicon Valley.

Read Philip Guo on silent technical privilege.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

This is the absurd thing. That gentleman's club doesn't really believe this person is now a woman, they know it's a matter of presentation only. If they genuinely thought he was a woman then they'd stop his membership. But they present their disbelieve as progressive and totally accepting, even though in reality they don't believe a bit of it.

[Ereshkigal]

Totally, AB.

[SecretHandshake]

Well that's easy to find out. Anyone fancies applying for membership as a transman?

[IndominusRex]

So which of us is going to toddle over to this club and try and sign up then? And then call the telegraph when we aren't allowed.

[ZooeyAndFranny]

More fucking crap. I am so sick of all this.

[ZooeyAndFranny]

I mean from the Savile, not from the OP.

[SophoclesTheFox]

Oh, for fuck's sake. I thought they had actually let a woman in! How naive am I?

So we can add that to the list of firsts and bests for women that are actually no such thing:

First female infantry soldier in the UK (Ben/Chloe Allen IIRC)
Highest paid female CEO (Martin/Martine Rothblatt)
Highest grossing movie franchise by women (The Wachowski brothers/sisters)

And just for balance, we can look at the list of achievements of celebrated trans men.

Giving birth.

How can anyone look at this kind of thing and not see it for the regressive, gender enforcing fuckery that it is?! ARGH! That stupid gentleman's haven must be delighted - all the kudos of having finally let women in, without actually having to let women in. Win win. I give up today, I really do.

[PricklyBall]

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/alex/

4th and 5th October! (But the ongoing saga of Stephanie covers most of the issues.)

[Farahilda]

Is your point then, that it would have been better, for the person to have been expelled from this club, and to have joined another as a woman ab initio?

Mocking someone's choice of name, when it's an actual person is a bit off. Even by MN Baby Names topic standards (when it's more about frankness concerneing possible names, rather than comments in actual people, though I suppose there are a handful if sleb threads that buck the trend)

[Ereshkigal]

No, it just shows up the hypocrisy and the absurdity of trans politics.

[PricklyBall]

More than hypocrisy - it's the way the thing is set up, right down to the way actual laws are framed - to maintain male privilege. The one exclusion in the current GRA legislation to the general principle that, once transitioned, people should be treated as their legally adopted gender rather than their birth sex, is that a transman cannot inherit in place of his younger brother.

[sleighbellend]

I'm happy to mock a name when it's a white man pretending to be an Asian woman.

[JigglyTuff]

The headline is a nonsense Farahilda as is the stance of the club. Either transwomen are women, in which case they are not allowed to be members of the club or they are men and therefore should remain in male bathrooms, changing rooms and sport competitions.

You can't have it both ways. But funnily enough, men don't like giving up their male privilege when they transition.

[Ereshkigal]

You can't have it both ways. But funnily enough, men don't like giving up their male privilege when they transition.

That's the heart of the matter.

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

If self ID happens we will all be able to identify our way into gentleman's clubs and thete will be nothing they can do about it.

[JigglyTuff]

@raisinsarenottheonlyfruit - I wonder if that's the way to wake people up to the issue. If women start loudly shouting that they're men and demanding access to men-only spaces then men will realise this impacts them as well as us. So many men virtue signal around self ID because it doesn't affect them

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

JigglyTuff good idea!

What male spaces are there these days that men really don't want to let women in?

Toilets and sport don't count (as women are no threat).

There are gentlemen's clubs. What else is there?

[DJBaggySmalls]

Some golf clubs. I'm not joining a golf club, there are limits.

[differenteverytime]

To join a club, though, don't you have to be proposed and seconded by existing members? That's what would probably keep trans men out.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Is this the Saville Club in Brooke Street? I've stayed there. Also the Saville Club offers reciprocal membership for members of the New Club in Edinburgh which has mixed membership.

[BingoFlamingo]

They can choose to be a men only club, just as women can have women only gyms.

[SophoclesTheFox]

Not the same thing, bingo. Sex segregation happens for lots of different reasons. Women only gyms or gym sessions are organised to give women safety and privacy from males while they exercise, because many women aren't comfortable doing so around men. Men only clubs are only that way as a legacy of a sexist past where it was perfectly OK to exclude women as they'd no business being there, because they belonged at home. Two entirely different set ups.

[SophoclesTheFox]

That's also not the point of this story, which is the rank hypocrisy and double standards on display.