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anyone else been ditched by friends for having Gender critical views?

(214 Posts)
JetCityWoman Sat 28-Oct-17 23:07:59

Long time user new account

just that really? I've been quite vocal of the importance of biology and a lot of my female friends have basically told me to fuck off. were talking 5+ year friendships all gone because I refuse to accept men can be women.

anyone else navigating this weird state of being?

frogsoup Sat 28-Oct-17 23:14:52

Yeah, me too. Only one person, but it hurt. Usually I must admit I avoid challenging friends. I have a pretty good radar for who is likely to be likeminded on this particular issue, and limit my ranting to that group, but I stupidly ignored it one time. It was like going down the rabbit hole sad I thought it would be possible to have a civil discussion - I honestly bent over backwards to be non-offensive - but nope, I was totally shut down because my comments re biology made her 'uncomfortable'. FFS. And if you knew what this person did for a job, you would weep.

JesusTapdancingChrist Sat 28-Oct-17 23:18:27

Yep, back when I was on FB I got unfriended by my most right on, intersectional feminist friend for saying that rapists in dresses shouldn't be put in women's prisons.

JetCityWoman Sat 28-Oct-17 23:22:19

Oh I can imagine! I'm tired of filtering myself. Tired of lying! thats what it feels like I am being asked to do by going along with this nonsense. Lying. One friend unfriended me from everything then 'explained' aka made herself feel better by saying why in a blog post she didn't think I would find.

what I am finding most strange is that my male friends full on agree with me and the gender critical stuff.

QuentinSummers Sat 28-Oct-17 23:22:30

I think I might have been sad

JetCityWoman Sat 28-Oct-17 23:26:19

well mine were because I said very clearly Gender Identity isn't the same as sexuality and sexuality needs to be recorded honestly and acknowledged as such because of risk factors with STIs, HIV not to mention birth control, sexual health screenings.

and there was the time I said lesbians are not there to validate trans identified males identity.

busyboysmum Sat 28-Oct-17 23:34:25

My male friends get it. My female friends just look blankly at me like I'm being a bitch.

Queenofthedrivensnow Sat 28-Oct-17 23:35:23

Even my mother took a bit of convincing!

MaisyPops Sat 28-Oct-17 23:39:19

Nope not yet, but I don't know if that's because I'm generally supportive if trans issues (up to the point where trans activist lobbies start trying to colonise women's spaces).
E.g. gender neutral toilets = I'm up for that. Single cubicles, fully enclosed with a sanpro bin. All good.
E.g. gender neutral toilets with urinals and gender neutral toilets without urinals = nope. Not ok at all because that is just giving men access to women's spaces.

hipsterfun Sun 29-Oct-17 00:49:57

Not yet, but I’m expecting to be. I can live with it grin

BriechonCheese Sun 29-Oct-17 01:02:05

I was asked to leave a feminist group because of my Gender Criticism - the group contained many friends of over 15 years. Most of them were doctors. hmmconfused

The absolute refusal, on their part, to debate any of it was incredibly confusing. I know these women to be bright, intelligent, caring but they threw away a loving friendship because of this.
Two have come back to me and apologised after reaching peak trans others have been horrendously behaved toward me.

NoLoveofMine Sun 29-Oct-17 01:10:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AssassinatedBeauty Sun 29-Oct-17 01:18:12

I've had a run in with a friend over this. I was verbally attacked aggressively by a previously good (male) friend over expressing the idea that there are not fixed innate differences between male and female brains. I was absolutely turned on for mildly expressing my thoughts, and not able to get a word in edgeways until I just had to walk away.

I also had to bite my tongue recently to avoid a similar failing out with another male friend who was arguing persistently for innate significant differences between male and female brains. I knew I just had to stop talking and leave it.

I'm actually too cowardly to express to my friends my total gender criticalness as I think I would be excluded for being transphobic, and I'd lose my friendship group.

NoLoveofMine Sun 29-Oct-17 01:26:23

I'm glad I'm not the only one Assassinated.

SuburbanRhonda Sun 29-Oct-17 01:28:38

Not a friend, but my DD can’t accept my gender critical views.

We’ve kind of tacitly agreed not to talk about it but it saddens me because we’re very close and can normally talk about anything.

FurryGiraffe Sun 29-Oct-17 01:10:04

I’m in the same situation with my brother Suburban. We’re very close and agree about almost everything from politics to our taste in books and films. It’s a real sticking point. He’s gay and has quite a few trans friends. He’s usually extraordinarily critical and perceptive in his thinking but the mental knots he ties himself in to accept the trans line are extraordinary.

Hearteningly though, my 84 year old great uncle raised the trans issue with me today and revealed himself to be thoroughly gender critical. He said himself he’d previously viewed the whole thing as progressive but now sees how truly regressive it is.

Oswin Sun 29-Oct-17 02:11:03

I haven't I think it's because all my mates are not really in that type of world. They have no idea what non binary is. All this stuff goes right over there heads. We live in quite a rough area and while there has quite a few transsexuals over the years it's been accepted that they are male.
They were treated fine but pushing into women's spaces just would not have been tolerated. Not that they would have. The transsexuals that I have known have always been pretty clear that they are men who like to dress a different way. They would have loved to have been born female but they are what they are.
That's why when I first came across gender critical feminists on here I was shocked. I admit I did think bigot. Then I read about fallon fox and the cotton ceiling. Turned my view upside down.

My friends have started to dip there toe into this stuff online. I was being basically threatened by a tra on fb a while ago and they got involved and were shocked by what they read.
They also associated trans women with the transsexuals we had grown up around.

WhoWants2Know Sun 29-Oct-17 02:23:31

I’ve had rows with one friend over it, and it’s clear that it’s a topic we can’t discuss.

I also have a trans relative, with name and hormone changes. I know that I can never let them know how I feel or what I think about it without ending the relationship forever and creating a rift in the family.

morningrunner Sun 29-Oct-17 06:29:36

I dispise people who do this. I have friends and family who hold very different opinions to me on lots of things from abortion to religion to Brexit. I don't flounce when they express them . This pro trans bigotry (which is what it is) if fucking disgusting.

And it's only ever women who are victims of it. Men seen to get away with being 'gender critical' (or not being fact resistant) all the time

Ktown Sun 29-Oct-17 06:43:41

No issues here but many friends are scientists which might help

Zoll Sun 29-Oct-17 08:02:59

I haven't, no. Everyone I know who I've talked to about it (good friends only) has either agreed with me or disagreed in part but accepted where I'm coming from. A few have got sick of the endless bloody conversation, heee! Fair enough!

This might be because I have been visibly, haplessly GNC since I was a tiny child and so in some ways I have (within the weird liberal hierarchy that's developed for whatever reason) the right to an opinion. Since realising that, I have tried to talk about this in a way to make them understand they have a right to an opinion too.

I'm also not 100% on board with the radfem position and talking about that and how that shakes out in practice has also been helpful in that it demonstrates that you can broadly support something without joining its religion and marching lockstep. The strong cultlike aspects of transactivism, with the purity and demand for vows, is the most offputting to most people because it gives the lie to its claims of liberality.

BamburyFuriou3 Sun 29-Oct-17 08:08:54

Well my sibling is a TRA so obviously they have gone NC with me. Tbh it's a bit of a relief because they have long standing MH and alcohol problems, and I'm tired of all the drama, endless dramas, neverending crises.

SophoclesTheFox Sun 29-Oct-17 08:10:26

I've only lost a couple of facebook friends over it, no great loss at all, really, as they were both prone to dramatics and vaguebooking and my feed is calmer without their presence. In real life, no issues. Though I have friends who disagree with me, it's all been pretty civil. It's helps that I'm historically completely right-on in all the Guardian-approved ways of the metropolitan left, and it is confusing the hell out of some of them that I have suddenly seemingly turned into a raving "bigot" on just this one topic...it's making them think - "Sophocles is normally such an ally, and I agree with her politics, why is she being like this?" - which is good.

Youcanttaketheskyfromme Sun 29-Oct-17 08:29:17

^ Thats what made me start to think.

When reading on here, especially in feminism I'm always impressed at people who articulate so much better than me but share views. Seeing so many intelligent people express concerns made me start to think.

SuburbanRhonda Sun 29-Oct-17 08:40:32

Sophocles

I wish my DD could use the same logic. I’ve brought her up to be a feminist, and to be a political and compassionate person, just like her brother (who, interestingly, is absolutely on board with gender-critical views) and she hasn’t yet questioned whether I might have a point with my concerns about where this is all leading.

She just thinks I’m a TERF who’s going to say something offensive to her trans friends.

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