Men not believing what you say

[dailydance]

I have encountered this so many times that I have almost given up. I say something factual and rarely get believed by men, until they google what I have said. I have experienced this both professionally and personally.. more so on a personal level. Does anyone else experience this often?

[whoareyoukidding]

I am lucky enough to work almost exclusively with women, but I do remember my dad being as you describe. I've also encountered other men who have behaved similarly, much more than I've encountered women who have done this.

[Anlaf]

ALL THE TIME
Everywhere

Men will interrupt me in meetings to say "that's wrong". (it's not fucking wrong as we will now spend our time establishing)

A male friend argued with me for hours yesterday (even though he "didn't know much about this") on Facebook until I posted an article from a paper he reads SAYING THE SAME THING I WAS. "oh ok maybe you've looked into this"

I wonder where they learn it- I've decided at home? And then apply it elsewhere? Is it something to do with school? Teachers begrudgingly listened to?

I also wonder if it's cultural, I'm Scottish and I find it more common among English men, but perhaps that's where I do more arguing.

SOLUTION: SEND THEM ALL ON A COURSE. Unconscious bias training or whatever it was called before we all decided nobody could be sexist nowadays

Gosh that feels better, thanks op.

[Letitsnowrainhail]

More fool them.

If you told them not to jump in to shark infested waters, they won't believe you. Haha hah

[GrandmaSuckingEggs]

I haven't noticed this so much but what I find is that men will completely write off my opinion

Yesterday I was talking to a dog walker about where we get our dogs groomed. I said I didn't like a particular place because my dog gets uncharacteristically nervous going in there and I don't find the staff very friendly. "No, it's good there" he says

Erm, no, the whole point of an opinion is that (a) it's not a fact and (b) because of this it can't be wrong.

Cunt.

[ShoesHaveSouls]

I notice this all the time.

Wasn't there this bloke who swapped e-mail addresses with a female colleague, and suddenly noticed men were arguing with him more/not believing what he said?

Men are believed, women aren't.

[ShoesHaveSouls]

Oooh, and I read this exchange on Twitter re. the Harvey Weinstein stuff:

Twitter user: Why don't women report sexual assault?

Woman: Because people don't believe us.

Twitter man twat: I find that very hard to believe.

!!!

^That was a genuine exchange on Twitter.

[AnotherQuoll]

I think it's because of their fundamental belief that everything we say is subjective, and that everything a man says is objective truth. You know, because women are just all so emotional we can't tell fact from fiction nor feelings. Whereas even if a feeling or a half-arsed theory, men are only capable of rationality, logic and Great Truth.

It's the only reason men who say they're women were ever given five minutes of consideration in the first place.

[Mantegnaria]

Doesn't it all depend on how you say things ?

[Datun]

ShoesHaveSouls

Oooh, and I read this exchange on Twitter re. the Harvey Weinstein stuff:

Twitter user: Why don't women report sexual assault?

Woman: Because people don't believe us.

Twitter man twat: I find that very hard to believe.

!!!

^That was a genuine exchange on Twitter.

That’s hilarious. What was the response?

[Datun]

Mantegnaria

Doesn't it all depend on how you say things ?

How come in your opinion, should a woman say something in order to be believed?

[Datun]

• come was meant to be a comma!

[ShoesHaveSouls]

Datun, some seemed to think it was a joke - until directed to look at Twitter-TwatMan's timeline. It was no joke.

[Datun]

What’s the name of the person, I want to google that Twitter thread. I’m not on Twitter, so I have to google it.

[pigsknickers]

My partner has done this, but to be honest he does it to men too because he's a tedious pedant. He struggled to understand why I objected to it, and claims it wouldn't bother him at all if people googled things he'd said. I pointed out that as a man, he isn't used to being disbelieved so it wouldn't get under his skin in the same way. I think he's taken it on board (and has at least stopped fact-checking me while I'm sitting right next to me).

[DJBaggySmalls]

Yup, all the time. And again, we are told we have to say things in a certain, undefined way to be believed.
Its not the way women talk thats the problem. I'm so used to seeing the look of disbelief that I'm sort of immune to it, so no longer react defensively.

I see online that we are supposed to listen very carefully not to what men say, but to their intention behind it. At the same time, I've seen women called out for doing just that, and told to take whats said at face value.
None of these behaviours are assertive. They are commonly used by abusers.

[ShoesHaveSouls]

It's here, Datun.

[JWrecks]

AAAAGGGGHHH! My husband does this all the time! I don't take it personally (anymore) because he does it to EVERYONE, but it drives me up a bloody wall to, for example, say something about a subject on which I'm a genuine expert, and watch him go and look it up, or get a second opinion!

WHY DO THEY DO THAT?!

[ShoesHaveSouls]

Well, I just googled it, and it was covered by the Daily Mail. Wonders will never cease!

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4963230/Man-doesn-t-believe-people-don-t-believe-rape-victims.html

[TieGrr]

DP and I literally just argued about this yesterday. I told him I'm sick of having to back up everything I say with three or four sources before he'll actually believe me.

He's also pedantic to a fault so I don't know if it's just because I'm a woman that he does this, or whether he does it to everyone.

It's irritating as hell because I generally don't say anything as a fact unless I'm absolutely sure in what I'm saying.

[TheSparrowhawk]

What I find astounding is that men will try to tell me I'm wrong about my own experiences and my own life. So I'll say something happened and they'll try to tell me it didn't. I have on a few occasions stopped at that point and said 'sorry are you trying to tell me about my own life?' Most men have the decency to look shame faced at that point but it is amazing how entitled they feel to just pronounce on things as though everything they say is the absolute truth.

[GrandmaSuckingEggs]

TheSparrow I was talking with FIL once. He was adamant that Manchester Metropolitan University was a part of Manchester University. He was completely 100% adamant to the point of actually saying "You're wrong".

I did my fucking doctorate at Manchester University.

[Datun]

That Daily Mail article about the tweeting twat. It specifies there are four comments, but only one remains.

Someone saying that the man was not oblivious, just sarcastic. And that it’s a non-story.

Someone not believing women when they say someone doesn’t believe them about not being believed.

I know lots of words, but sometimes there just aren’t any.

[Anlaf]

What I find astounding is that men will try to tell me I'm wrong about my own experiences and my own life

YES

I think there is an element here of male socialisation to believe your own opinion on any subject is valid. I did not receive that socialisation, as a girl.

But there seems to be an additional problem with accepting women's opinions, that they must be poorly researched, or there is some other explanation you haven't thought of. "Oh yes but that's probably because..."

[hackmum]

I have been subjected to this a lot. It's mostly men, but you do sometimes get it from women too, which is frustrating.

The Manchester one is very funny. It's classic mansplaining, isn't it? The fact that Grandma actually attended Manchester University and is therefore in a position to know whether MMU is part of it or not is neither here nor there to a man who is absolutely confident of his own rightness.