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As a man with no daughters, here are my views on feminism (New Statesman)

(13 Posts)
MCBeatsandGrindah Thu 12-Oct-17 17:27:22

As a response to the Weinstein stuff and the statements from the "men who have daughters" tribe. Just thought I'd share.

morningrunner Thu 12-Oct-17 17:59:10

I see what he is saying but I think he is being a bit harsh on the 'men with daughters' commentators. I can understand why 'men with daughters' do weigh in though and it's not just a 'Look at me I'm so evolved' thing . Having children brings some things into very sharp focus; like I could have watched something like 'the missing' or Don't Look Now and feel empathy for the parents who had lost a child; but nowwith kids of my own I can't even bear to watch stuff like that.
Make sense?

AssassinatedBeauty Thu 12-Oct-17 18:04:45

Well, yes, that makes sense, but they're essentially advertising that they had limited empathy for 50% of the world population until they had a daughter. It's a bit of a shit admission and they shouldn't be lauded or congratulated for their very belated awareness.

NewDaddie Thu 12-Oct-17 18:06:39

I enjoyed it, it made me laugh and cringe at myself, especially the dd being an extension of myself bit.

NewDaddie Thu 12-Oct-17 18:07:48

I think it was intended to be satire assassinated

cheminotte Thu 12-Oct-17 18:14:44

He's absolutely right. The idea that men can only feel empathy if they imagine that it was their mother / daughter / sister should be nonsense. But unfortunately men with daughters do make better bosses (insert study link here).

AssassinatedBeauty Thu 12-Oct-17 18:17:14

@NewDaddie I don't think @morningrunner 's post was meant to be satirical?

NoLoveofMine Thu 12-Oct-17 18:17:20

Well, yes, that makes sense, but they're essentially advertising that they had limited empathy for 50% of the world population until they had a daughter. It's a bit of a shit admission and they shouldn't be lauded or congratulated for their very belated awareness.

I concur.

I also thought the article wasn't bad and made a good point. As I've posted before, I talk to my dad a lot about feminism and issues related to it and one of the things I've said as well is that I wouldn't want him to care because of my existence (as the article was speaking of, because he has a daughter). I'm glad I'm able to raise these issues to him and that he listens and engages but he (and others) should care because women shouldn't suffer misogyny, not because one woman shouldn't suffer misogyny and in a world women do it's highly likely she will. That said, I understand the value of maybe personalising feminism to men who might not otherwise register how important it is and making them consider certain issues with regards to their daughters if they have one isn't something I'd completely dismiss. However, as the article deals with, this implies other men should/will be oblivious, dismissive or not care at all about misogyny and discrimination against women and girls. The "if it was your daughter" line suggests misogyny only matters when it affects their own offspring, that it was fine for every other woman or girl to suffer it but not for her. This I don't think really works towards truly combating misogyny and misogynist attitudes.

drwitch Thu 12-Oct-17 18:27:37

I think the daughters thing simply makes the point that there are not two types of women: sex objects and people like our daughters. Seems unbelievable that it needs saying but hey ho

NewDaddie Thu 12-Oct-17 19:03:31

Apologies assassinated I misunderstood your first post

morningrunner Thu 12-Oct-17 19:12:36

But it's not like (taking Don't look now as an example ) I would have thought ,before I had kids, that Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie were making a mountain out of a molehills over the death of their child. I emphathised with their loss but post kids that kind of thing really gets me in a way it did not before - so I think it's a bit mean to say that a man who says that he feels particularly aggrieved about the Weinstein scandle because he has daughters is by inference saying that he otherwise wouldn't really have given a shite about it

theendisnotnigh Thu 12-Oct-17 19:24:42

I'm not sure how I feel about the article. My only reference point is that once I became a parent I understood that there was now someone in the world that I would kill for to protect? That I would do anything to protect this child. And that I had completely failed to understand the power of your love for your child - - until I became a parent. And i do think that it shifts your world view a bit.
So I suppose at a gut level, I can understand what he says? But it also reads like so many conversations with men in meetings -'I don't know anything about this but ...... mansplain, mansplain, mansplain.....'. grin

OlennasWimple Thu 12-Oct-17 22:25:37

I know a fair few men who only felt any feminist awakenings after they had daughters. Or, rather, men who would actually stick their neck out and take action to advance women's equality (like our friend who complained repeatedly to the manufacturer of cricket gear that they labelled everything "Small Boy" rather than "Small Youth" like others)

Similarly, I now understand white privilege in a whole new way now that I have lived in places with a much starker white / black divide than the bits of the UK that I had lived in previously. It doesn't mean that I was a racist before, but I have an understanding of race issues now that I just didn't before it was part of my lived experience.

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