I knew this was happening, but it's depressing to read in black and white - an infected generation...(56 Posts)
This makes me so angry, and I feel sorry for the girls
And for those who don't want to click through...
Girls go along with sex acts, says teacher
Are children turning to pornography to educate themselves about sex? Are boys coercing girls to do things they later regret? A 24-year-old secondary school teacher tells the BBC she's shocked by the stories she hears from her teenage pupils
Warning: This personal account contains some frank language.
"The language boys use to discuss sex and sexual acts is degrading and shows a lack of understanding of consent and the actual mutual respect required to have meaningful sex.
"The girls, equally, are taught not to respect their own bodies and don't comprehend the notion that they may be being used.
"There was one time when one of the girls, who was 14, was really upset and said to me, 'I sucked his dick and he doesn't love me - he told me he loved me and he doesn't.'
"That was the main thing that made me think these girls are being used.
'I didn't say no, but I regret that'
"I don't think anyone can say a 14 or 16-year-old girl has performed these sex acts and enjoyed it - they just go along with it.
"They're going along with it at the time, it's almost like it's an honour that they're chosen, especially if it's a popular boy, almost like a validation of their appearance and attractiveness - or they think it is.
"I don't think these girls are aware of their vulnerability. I think these girls - 14 plus - will look back and think, 'Yeah, I was coerced into that.'
"They get themselves into a situation naively and then they're in too deeply.
Right to say 'no'
"You need to make the girls realise they are being objectified and used and make them aware they are vulnerable to this sort of thing.
"It's their right to say 'no' and that nobody should feel peer-pressured.
"If a boy doesn't want a photo of you or 'get with you' as they say, you're not attractive.
"It's a very sad state of affairs to have girls empowered by how boys think of them.
"It's as bad not to have had a boy take a sexual interest in you, in a 15-year-old's view, as it is to be constantly asked for photos.
"I think the boys are quite clever, they tend to go for the ones who can be manipulated - not all boys obviously.
Shaving pubic hair
"I was on break time duty and I heard a boy say 'I put my hand in her pants and it was like a forest and I was quick out of there.'
"It's the accepted norm amongst the girls that you shave it all off - a totally unspoken rule.
"That's a porn thing, where every single woman has got no pubic hair - I don't think you can say it's not.
"And if they're shaving improperly down there, they are putting their health at risk, for example, if they're using an old razor or a used one, they can increase their risk of infection.
"Schools do teach sex education, but it's focused on contraception, how not to get pregnant.
"It's not about loving meaningful relationships or about consent - that's not really covered.
"They know a lot about STIs [sexually transmitted infections] and condoms but not a lot about the meaningful aspect.
"I honestly think you've got to teach these kids more than about contraception.
"It needs a revolution. They need specialists coming in - teachers can see PHSE [personal, social, health and economic education] as a bit of an extra, they're certainly not specialists in it, it's an extra lesson or 20 minutes in form.
"A lot of teachers don't feel confident talking about these things.
"We're setting them up to go on to a porn website to learn about sex. I don't think they're going on there to get kicks, but to learn about sex and that obviously feeds into a whole societal thing.
An infected generation
"When I was at school there were problems with webcams and sex chats and msn messenger.
"But I can't remember boys talking about girls like this.
"I really don't know why it's spiralled.
"I think we can blame a lot of things on the porn industry, we can blame social media and the ease of access.
"But they're an infected generation that no longer sees the gravitas of sex."
Produced by Katherine Sellgren, BBC family and education reporter
More on this story
'I didn't say no, but I regret that'
05 October 2017
Copyright © 2017 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.
My wee ones a bit young for all of this, but I am trying to proof her against it as much as I can, but there will come a time when her peers will have more influence than me, and TBH I am scared for her, and I'm scared for the future - what sort of adults are these boys going to grow into?
This is awful, it actually sounds worse to be a teenage girl now than it was when I was a teenager. How has an entire society raised such compliant girls and entitled boys?
I don't think we have deliberately raised children like this.
I believe that the onslaught of the media (in its widest forms, not just social media - but especially social media), has brought the global corporations, the pornographers, the extremists, the fantasists, the advertisers and even the criminals unwittingly into our children's lives. Never before can there have been generations where so many outsiders have been able to influence children almost every minute of the day.
Way back parents just had to worry about 'bad influences' once children went to school, started to play out alone, met 'bad influences'.
Now these people are everywhere - on TV and online - and it takes considerable effort on the part of parents to censor them.
Sometimes of course, these influences will be for the good , but as this programme suggests, many of them are completely toxic and hateful and so bloody powerful.
Sadly, I'm a teacher and this sounds about right to me. However, I don't think this is new - I think there have always been teenage boys like this and always been girls who are, for whatever reason, more vulnerable and open to being manipulated and used. I can remember boys like this when I was at school, a very long time ago.
What has changed is the increase of body shaming - particularly the obsession with girls' pubic hair which I find shocking.
And another thing that has changed is the increased nonchalance and 'in your face' of these types of boys. Years ago it really was locker room talk and boys would certainly have made sure that teachers, for example, did not overhear them. There would have been consequences if caught talking in this derogatory way. But now, I feel there is a bravado and an entitlement abroad in society which allows boys, and sadly men too. to be very open and vocal about these attitudes.
What makes me feel a little better is hearing my step kids speak (both teenagers) with their friends and makes me realise it isn’t all like this (I hope).
It is awful isn't it.
I think we just have to talk to our kids. We need to counter the influences that they will be getting from peers, from porn etc, with information about what respectful relationships and sexual encounters should look like. That porn does not and should not reflect real life. That boys need to recognise their power and privilege and girls need to resist their cultural passivity and own their wants and needs.
I'm not sure it's any different than when I was at school tbh. Diffferet focus (pubic hair rather than fat thighs or whatever) but the result was the same.
I also recall, distinctly, bring shocked that a blow job didn't but you unerring loyalty (I decided not to, my mate went for it). He, and many others, called her a slut. She sobbed. Tbh there is nothing different now.
It's nothing new. The line "he told me he loved me and he doesn't" is the oldest trick in the book. As parents we should be teaching our daughters that some (or all?) boys lie in the hope of getting sexual favours.
Weren't boys as bad? I came across some awful arseholes, then. And I was lucky. Several of my friends were seriously sexually assaulted, abused or raped. And girls were obsessed with their looks then.
I think porn has mainstreamed it but I think we are running to stand still.
I think you've nailed it in your post. Everyone knows that socialisation does indeed make many men feel entitled to sex and make many women feel obliged to provide it. Social media has intensified this. If you think of it as on a spectrum, the worst offenders can, at the touch of a button, surround themselves with like-minded individuals.
Growing up, this will make it feel completely normal. You can find anyone, anywhere, any time, thinking either the same as you, or worse.
It makes it feel more acceptable, and just feeds in to the worst excesses. Sexually antisocial behaviour has lost its stigma.
I think those idiot boys were around when I was at school but porn has definitely made things more extreme. Totally agree sex ed needs improved at schools. The problem is the parents who disagree will be the same parents who won't talk to their kids about this.
I am trying to raise my son to question porn and what girls like as much as my daughter for being confident to say no to tossers.
I think pressure to start sex early and prolifically are huge now. I think it's a bad thing and worked hard on my boys and girls to help them understand that it was actually perfectly normal not to be sleeping around, catching STDs, increasing cancer risk and risking pregnancy before they were in a committed relationship. I know it's seen as old fashioned but we believe inconsequential hedonism and casual is not the route to long term happiness. Pictures of youngsters vomiting in the streets, sending obscene photographs to people they hardly know and showing their breasts and genitals in public because they couldn't control their alcohol intake are sad. Very sad.
I read this article and thought it was just the same when I was a teen 25 years ago.
I think chips is right that there are boys like this and they target vulnerable girls. I came across lots of behaviour like this but I was an abused and neglected child with no self esteem, other girls with similar backgrounds got the same treatment. High self esteem girls with caring parents generally did not, probably because they were less desperate for someone to 'love' them.
This is just rubbish parenting and leaving kids on iPads because 'I trust them' attitude.
I don't see things improving anytime soon. Schools can only do so much.
I don't know what it was like in the past but I'd be surprised if it was the same as it is now. Pornography is accessed from such a young age and a lot of what (some) boys expect and pressure girls into is directly from that - I've heard some awful things. Also just with the comments made and the way so many boys speak about girls routinely, it's often not only sexualised and demeaning but violently so. Rape jokes are commonplace amongst some boys, memes on the subject posted, girls spoken of purely sexually. Sexual harassment and assault is commonplace at parties (I'm classing groping as sexual assault). "Revenge porn", whole forums dedicated to this or just posting photographs of girls encouraging others to post sexually violent language about them (https://katieglass.net/2017/08/15/the-sunday-times-baiting-the-sexual-cyber-bullying-that-targets-teenage-girls/).
I could go on. When I tell my mum various things she doesn't think it was anything like the same when she was young.
I don't think you see so much now something that was very common and totally acceptable when I was young, 13 year old girls dating/having sex with 30 year old men. I had several friends dating much older men when they were young. One of the mums would allow the man to sleep in her dd's room overnight. It shocks me now because I do wonder what that dd thinks of it now.
I think pp hits the nail on the head. It's the girls who don't feel loved at home for whatever reason. They're craving affection. I was like that. I'm determined dd won't be.
But I'm not the only one who's asked for dd to be moved seats at school because boys were harassing her. She's 12. It probably started when she was around 10.
Back in the day, if someone wanted to access 'hard core porn', not only did they have to walk into the seedy 'adults only porn shop' on their local high street, but they then had to physically ask to 'cross a line' and go into a back room where the illegal stuff was kept.
So men had to physically, in plain sight, risk being seen in their desire to access pornography. Now it is available at the click of a button.
So someone trying to deal with their thoughts / fantasies of an unhealthy kind (and I am thinking of teenagers) , can explore it in the privacy of their home - no physical crossing of those boundaries.
This isn't a generational thing. This kind of thing has been going on for a long time internet porn or not. Some children are not taught how to behave properly by their parents and this is the end result.
I completely agree. Girls magazines were about the only pornography widely available. And they were utterly tame in comparison to online pornography.
When videos were invented, everything went up in a notch. But nonetheless, you still had to go out of your way to acquire them.
Smartphones have changed it unrecognisably since I was a teenager. And attitudes have changed right along with it.
Also agree about lack of self-esteem in young girls. But that's probably a different thread.
I do think it's a new thing. I went to a co-ed school 30 years ago and while the boys were often incredibly idiotic in their behaviour, they were never obscene. My teenaged daughter tells me that the boys (whose parents I mostly know and who would be horrified by this I think) talk graphically about the porn they have watched. They do not temper their conversations if they think they can be overheard but relish in an audience. I find it shocking. On the other hand I have heard of her female class mates also being overtly physically sexual in their gestures to the boys. All this information and none of the maturity or guidance needed to handle it is a disaster.
Last summer one of my friends was walking around the Broadway near our school and was followed by a group of boys in their school uniforms who were about 13 making violently sexual comments at her clearly taken from pornography. Though again I don't know about the past I'd be surprised if this kind of thing happened much years ago - and it's not rare now.
There is a huge pressure on young people to be sexually active at a young age. It is fed to them as normal and desirable and there is plenty of porn around to "show them how its done and what it is that they are supposed to be wanting to do". That this is the outcome is really no surprise.
I'm not saying it never happened a couple of decades ago or before that, but it was not the majority attitude like it seems to be now.
Sexualising girls is presented as empowerment; it clearly isnt empowering for them.
It was a bit like this when I was at school but nowhere near as bad. Like a pp said boys were idiotic in their behaviour, but nowhere near as obscene as they are now. Although Im sure coercion did happen back then. I do think porn being so readily available has a lot to answer for and I think sex education in schools hasn’t progressed to keep up with how mainstream it has become and neither have most parents. Porn is generally seen as harmless by many, it’s about time people were made aware of the effect it is having on their children and society as a whole.
My dd’s are still young but I’m dreading them going to secondary school, who knows what they will have to contend with 10 years down the line.
I am genuinely surprised no one has come into the thread to tell us all the girls are not as ‘innocent’ as they are made out and that they are just as complicit in this behaviour as boys.
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