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Gender identity changes reality bafflement.

(68 Posts)
Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 21:31:41

I copied this to Facebook, it's very clear. Why do only 3 people respond ? I mean I've only got 65 friends as never been a fan of faceache as it made me paranoid but still, they're intelligent people and I'm not even getting abuse. Ahhhh

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=322300644846752&id=203074990102652

Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 21:32:07

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=322300644846752&id=203074990102652

AssassinatedBeauty Wed 04-Oct-17 21:42:39

Any chance of a non Facebook link?

Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 22:08:57

If you want to understand where I'm coming from on proposed changes to sex discrimination laws, this is well written and easy to follow:

"The law is very shortly, and most likely, going to change, in such a way as to entirely replace the protected category of sex with the category of self-defined gender identity. Provisions for exceptions which currently exist (the right to female only services such as rape crisis centres etc) will likely be abolished completely.

This effectively abolishes the rights of the entire female sex to be recognised as such, replacing those rights with an ill-defined and circular concept that allows self-definition to be the only measure of what woman means.

Woman effectively has no definition and no protection either; it becomes a label devoid of content.

Equality Law appears to be about to overstep its remit remarkably - from its origin as a tool designed to recognise clearly defined categories of oppressed people and provide them with protections from discrimination - into a tool that legally dismantles and refuses to recognise an existing clearly defined category, biological sex.

Sex and gender are decidedly not the same thing. However references to gender, an intangible belief system, will soon supercede sex entirely, and women will be compelled by law to declare that it is their "deeply held belief regarding their identity" that is discriminated against if they are to claim protections.

A woman who isn't hired for a role because she is recognised to be a female of childbearing age will have no recourse if that employer can demonstrate that he hires other 'women' (who could be biologically male but not recognised as distinguishable from females any longer, since sex is no longer a protected measure).

Female quotas designed to address the disproportionate under-representation of the female sex will be filled by those who are of the male sex, but have declared the requisite gender identity.
The axis of oppression is always sex, but no "gender" discrimination has occurred.

To be a member of a sex class which makes up half the population and yet to find oneself represented by more of the male sex under a banner that "this is what women are" allows a grotesque masking of an entirely visible inequality.

Further, it will not be permissible for biological females to demand same sex accommodations, ever, in any circumstance.
I do not agree that it is the human right of an individual to reassign their gender. I do believe it is their right to live and express themselves as they choose, enter into any consenting adult relationship they see fit, and not face discrimination for this.

But if asserting the right to claim membership of a sex to which one categorically does not belong comes at the expense of the original members of that sex being forced to cede their own rights to definition, then, no, it is not a human right. It should never be a human right to force people to falsely identify themselves for the benefit of another."

kooshbin Wed 04-Oct-17 22:12:58

I'm a newbie to Facebook, but I searched for the FB page "Fair Play for Women", found that post, and shared it. That's my first "share" on FB, so I hope I got it right.

Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 22:13:06

If you want to understand where I'm coming from on proposed changes to sex discrimination laws, this is well written and easy to follow:

"The law is very shortly, and most likely, going to change, in such a way as to entirely replace the protected category of sex with the category of self-defined gender identity. Provisions for exceptions which currently exist (the right to female only services such as rape crisis centres etc) will likely be abolished completely.

This effectively abolishes the rights of the entire female sex to be recognised as such, replacing those rights with an ill-defined and circular concept that allows self-definition to be the only measure of what woman means.

Woman effectively has no definition and no protection either; it becomes a label devoid of content.

Equality Law appears to be about to overstep its remit remarkably - from its origin as a tool designed to recognise clearly defined categories of oppressed people and provide them with protections from discrimination - into a tool that legally dismantles and refuses to recognise an existing clearly defined category, biological sex.

Sex and gender are decidedly not the same thing. However references to gender, an intangible belief system, will soon supercede sex entirely, and women will be compelled by law to declare that it is their "deeply held belief regarding their identity" that is discriminated against if they are to claim protections.

A woman who isn't hired for a role because she is recognised to be a female of childbearing age will have no recourse if that employer can demonstrate that he hires other 'women' (who could be biologically male but not recognised as distinguishable from females any longer, since sex is no longer a protected measure).

Female quotas designed to address the disproportionate under-representation of the female sex will be filled by those who are of the male sex, but have declared the requisite gender identity.
The axis of oppression is always sex, but no "gender" discrimination has occurred.

To be a member of a sex class which makes up half the population and yet to find oneself represented by more of the male sex under a banner that "this is what women are" allows a grotesque masking of an entirely visible inequality.

Further, it will not be permissible for biological females to demand same sex accommodations, ever, in any circumstance.
I do not agree that it is the human right of an individual to reassign their gender. I do believe it is their right to live and express themselves as they choose, enter into any consenting adult relationship they see fit, and not face discrimination for this.

But if asserting the right to claim membership of a sex to which one categorically does not belong comes at the expense of the original members of that sex being forced to cede their own rights to definition, then, no, it is not a human right. It should never be a human right to force people to falsely identify themselves for the benefit of another."

OlennasWimple Wed 04-Oct-17 22:34:33

It's far too long for most people to bother reading on FB TBH

Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 23:05:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

busyboysmum Wed 04-Oct-17 23:18:29

I have got tumbleweed on Facebook from all my women friends when I have ever posted about anything to do with this. I did post a link to a petition at one point and about 4 or 5 male friends spoke out against the proposals but not one single woman friend commented in anyway.

busyboysmum Wed 04-Oct-17 23:20:02

Are any of your friends into sport? maybe post some of the links to transgender sports people setting new unobtainable world records in women's sports? That might be something that is very quantifiable and easy to understand.

Jog22 Wed 04-Oct-17 23:41:08

About it being too long I was thinking of breaking down t down and into

"So you're 34, married 2 years, you go for a job but lose out to a transwoman and for the other ones. Oh well nothing you can do legally, they were women, quota filled, not like you were pregnant at the time..."

"Your teen daughter is up for a Girls in Science Award but loses out to the trans boy. But he is a female, he identified as one. Ignore under-representation of girls in STEM subjects, but he's a girl...bigot."

"You were sexually abused between ages of 5-10 by a male relative. Obviously you hate smears, there's a man doing it, says he's a woman, you object, no smear for you, how dare you misgender him." "

Thoughts?

busyboysmum Wed 04-Oct-17 23:50:44

I think its good when you can show thst this is already happening. So maybe an example as above with a link to show in countries where self id is a thing it has happened.

Jog22 Thu 05-Oct-17 00:04:55

I can certainly do that for sport. There's protests about a trans weightlifter somewhere.

Jog22 Thu 05-Oct-17 00:06:08

I would like to find examples from canada

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:08:16

There's Lauren Hubbard in NZ I think. The Iranian women's football team is a good example.

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:10:45

Also the way a lot of crimes are now being reported as being by a woman when in fact they are men who dress as women:

articles.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2017/10/gretna_woman_booked_with_sexua.amp

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:12:30

The rapists in women's prison is happening now. Also Deadnaming so any crimes they formerly committed as a man are erased.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4856268/Transgender-rapist-moved-women-jail-segregated.html

OlennasWimple Thu 05-Oct-17 00:21:10

D Moscato is a good example to use (I agree that using actual examples is better than hypothetical situations). Not many people would agree that a bearded male should take priority in a women's refuge

There are lots of examples in sports, such as Fallon Fox and an American cyclist who went from being fairly mediocre in the men's competitions to top three in the women's. And a 15 yo American track and field athlete who has done nothing at all to transition other than tell people that he feels like a girl, and has been allowed to compete as such - funnily enough, he keeps winning

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:28:31

t.co/bVbi8JWplt?amp=1

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:30:04

Sorry that link is about Laurel Hubbard the male weightlifters who is somehow smashing all the women's records. Funny that.

busyboysmum Thu 05-Oct-17 00:33:00

As is this very interesting article:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/new-zealand-man-gavin-laurel-hubbard-sweeps-womens-weightlifting-competition/amp/

To show that men could just use it to win stuff when they weren't winning as men.

morningrunner Thu 05-Oct-17 07:13:45

As far as I know there are no plans in the UK to replace sex or maternity as protected characteristics in the Equality Act.the plan is to extend the category of transgender. Sorry but this comes across as a bit hysterical. Self identification will create quite enough problems- I don't think we need to invent problems that can be easily disproved - it won't help !

AdalindSchade Thu 05-Oct-17 07:17:04

Sex will be replaced by gender in practice when gender becomes a protected characteristic. That’s obvious!

Datun Thu 05-Oct-17 07:36:33

OP, I would take out the bits at the end of each statement that 'judge' - like 'bigot' and 'how dare you misgender'.

You can say you could be accused of a hate crime, or you can be accused of discrimination. But take out the opinion part.

Saying the facts, but remaining fairly neutral about what you think of them in terms of comments, tends to come across as more reasonable, and therefore more people take it in. The facts will speak for themselves.

Some more pictures, attached, that illustrate your point.

morningrunner Thu 05-Oct-17 07:49:45

Gender is NOT going to be a protected character. The plan is to make being transgender a protected characteristic. Unless you think it's ok to harass and discriminate against transgender people? The question on is going to be how to ensure robust protection for single sex sServices and women's sport.

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